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查看完整版本 : Is Boundary-Free Skiing Freedom or Risk?


Mike
2009-01-09, 10:12
I saw this article in the Skiing Magazine yesterday, interesting points of view from both sides:

POINT: Vive la France
By Tim Neville
I was 12 years old the first time I ducked a boundary line. I'd been scratching Pennsylvania ice when I spotted what looked like powder beyond the rope—a thing I'd never actually touched before. I poached it, got busted, and was lectured. “You could get hurt,” the patroller said.

I've never been injured skiing and it isn't because I stay inbounds. Before patrollers hunt me down with wire clippers, I'll be the first to say that ropes are there for a reason. And maybe I've just been lucky. But fast-forward a couple decades and I've come to realize the biggest beef I have with American ski areas isn't with patrollers and ropes but with Americans.

I can say things like that because I now live in Europe, where ski-related rescues are a quarter as likely as in America. Here—as well as in places like Canada, Chile, and Argentina — you learn fast that the only way avoid accident is to watch your step. In America you can find someone else to blame. Just ask David Graven - in 1992, he fell into a ravine off the side of a double black at Vail. He sued the resort and won. The courts ruled unmarked ravines aren't an inherent risk, so falling in them really isn't your fault. Out came the ropes.

In recent years, however, American resorts have begun to loosen the gates and open more backcountry terrain. But they still have a long way to go until they adopt the French idea of libre circulation, which gives you free access anywhere. In Europe, as soon as a foot of snow covers mountain turf, that land becomes public property, regardless of whose home sits atop it. Marking areas off-limits is the exception, not the rule. Sure, obstacles might not be marked and you may end up far from where you need to be. But that's freedom.

Europeans don't expect ski areas to be concierges or babysitters. If you need a rescue, even inbounds, you pay: 48 euros for on-slope help and up to 16,000 euros for a helicopter with a multiday search. A Carte Neige insurance policy costs around $50 and covers transportation costs should you need a rescue, but even so, having to pay up front makes people think twice about what they ski — or whether they should be skiing at all. A Breckenridge, Colorado, ski patroller told me he once got called out to patch a toenail.

The European system certainly has its flaws, but in general, when skiers here want to explore, they hire a guide and head out prepared. When they ski, they're not expecting a padded room. They know that mountains have ravines.

After spending two years in Europe in the 1990s, writer Tim Neville moved back in August for a third, indefinite stint, this time in Switzerland.

COUNTERPOINT: Arrêtez les Idiots
By Russ Rizzo
My first taste of Europe's laissez-faire approach to ski boundaries landed me in a Swiss family's backyard. I was at Grindelwald resort six years ago. At one moment, I was enjoying vertical drops twice as long as those I was used to stateside. If there was a boundary rope, I didn't see it. The next thing I knew, I was hoofing it back to the ski area I'd left a quarter mile back.

I'm the first to admit my detour was a shining example of an American taking his habits to a foreign place. From an early age, it's been ingrained in me that orange ropes act as guardrails on a ski slope, just as slow in chiding black letters means I'm getting close to the lodge. In Europe, if you see a warning sign or a rope it probably means you're on your way to certain death off a cliff.

The reality is, most skiers, especially those in the U.S., don't show up with knowledge about avalanches or backcountry safety. A lot of skiers are Texans wearing jester hats and belt buckles—and they need guardrails and warning signs.

In the U.S., bad things can happen when people ignore boundary lines. Last winter, 24-year-old Oscar Gonzales Jr. ducked a rope at California's Mountain High and got so lost he spent the night in an old airplane fuselage before getting airlifted to safety. He was lucky—three others that weekend died in separate avalanches close to where he was.

All told, eight skiers in the U.S. were killed in avalanches just off resort property last winter, in one of the deadliest avalanche seasons in American history. In most cases, those skiers knew the dangers. They carried avalanche gear and left resort property through gates clearly marked with warnings. I can't imagine what would happen if there were no boundary ropes or warning signs.

In the U.S., stick to the rules, and you can rest easy knowing you're not getting in over your head. When I ski a resort, I leave the beacon and map at home and trust that ski patrollers have thought of the precautions so I don't have to. I'm free to enjoy my day without keeping a vigilant eye out for rogue cable cars. By enforcing their boundaries, American resorts are protecting their ability to provide peace of mind. Now that's real freedom: being able to shut off your brain and just ski without worry. Besides, there's enough to pack for the ski trip without adding shovels and probes to the mix.

Europeans may look down on our off-limits approach to skiing. But while they're checking for cliffs every turn, I'll be comforted knowing that I'll return to the lodge in one piece without any life-threatening detours.

When he's not risking it all in the backcountry, freelance writer Russ Rizzo enjoys inbounds skiing in Colorado and Utah.

eLeung
2009-01-12, 12:24
It is a very good topic for our discussion. I think boundary-free skiing is suitable for the people who have certain sense, knowledge, skill, and self-control ability. Perhaps, most people are familiar with the artificial slopes that reduce a lot of risks and are living in virtual computer world where one can undo everything. So, they may have less awareness in the potential risk of wild snow environment. Next time, before enjoying boundary-free skiing, this question may be worthy of consideration – "Are you willing to take these risks?".:)

Mike
2011-05-15, 16:44
Here is a video posted on Vimeo showing how far people will go, the ski run is known as Cunningham Couloir in Chamonix:

http://vimeo.com/21498362

snowrider
2011-05-16, 00:08
Here is a video posted on Vimeo showing how far people will go, the ski run is known as Cunningham Couloir in Chamonix:

http://vimeo.com/21498362

Wow ... is that rock climbing or what?

Hakuba
2011-06-24, 21:37
I am a serial rope ducker. All I say is take care, know where you are going and that you will not be affecting others by dropping into the area and always be prepared to walk out of where you end up.

Mike
2011-06-26, 14:19
I am a serial rope ducker. All I say is take care, know where you are going and that you will not be affecting others by dropping into the area and always be prepared to walk out of where you end up.

Ducking ropes really depends on where you are and who you are.
Resorts vary wildly on whether ducking a rope is fine or forbidden.
Ropes are there for a reason, sometimes the ropes are there because the slope is danger, other times it means it is closed.

If the area is roped off because of avalanche danger and you duck the rope, you are not just putting yourself in danger, you are also putting the lives of the Ski Patrol that come to your rescue in danger as well.

In USA, if you duck the rope, generally they will take away your ski pass without hesitation. In some places in BC (Canada) the ropes are just to warn the skiers so they wouldn't fall off a cliff, but you were perfectly welcome to ski the cliff if you wanted to.
In Europe you do it at your own risk.

Having said that, I duck ropes myself when I'm skiing in France and Switzerland. But in USA , I don't want to lose my ski pass.

Hakuba
2011-06-28, 12:41
Agree Mike that you should always take into consideration other peoples safety. In Japan there are lots of ropes that are meant to protect the skier from themselves getting into trouble. I am happy that most people don't duck them leaving lots of fresh stuff for me to poach. Never skied in the US. I could imagine litigation being a big factor in their strict rules.

HKS
2011-06-28, 17:53
Agree Mike that you should always take into consideration other peoples safety. In Japan there are lots of ropes that are meant to protect the skier from themselves getting into trouble. I am happy that most people don't duck them leaving lots of fresh stuff for me to poach. Never skied in the US. I could imagine litigation being a big factor in their strict rules.

Once I joined a ski camp in Portland for 8 or 9 days. During the whole camp we ducked ropes and we never skiied on piste, I ended up throwing away the ski map as it was completely meaningless. But of course we were guided by instructors and it seems every staff working there are very close friends, no matter ski patrol, ski shops salesman or lifties, we were guided by lots of other staff.

Mike
2011-06-28, 18:03
Once I joined a ski camp in Portland for 8 or 9 days. During the whole camp we ducked ropes and we never skiied on piste, I ended up throwing away the ski map as it was completely meaningless. But of course we were guided by instructors and it seems every staff working there are very close friends, no matter ski patrol, ski shops salesman or lifties, we were guided by lots of other staff.

That is what I said in my posting #6 - 1st line - "Ducking ropes really depends on where you are and who you are." :bash:

freeskier
2011-06-30, 21:10
The article talks about boundary ropes, not ordinary "do not enter " ropes. It means you are out of the ski area which is operated by the resort and whatever happen is not their business, well, at least technically. In Whister, no one duck boundary ropes, because anyone can go out bound, so basically, there is no ropes to be duck anyway.

Kawasaki went out bound with a few friends last winter in Whistler on a bad weather day. Got lost in the white out. Spent one night on the mountain. They were lucky that the next day was good weather. Well, there are always risk and there are always someone who is willing to take.

In Niseko, I don't understand why people need to duck boundary ropes, because there are "GATES" to access the out bound area if you want to ski some fresh powder. Everyone is free to ski out-bound as far as the gates are open. They are very strict about the "completely off limit area" though. You get caught, you lose your ski pass. If you are Japanese who works in Niseko that get caught? You may even lose your job. Japanese hate rule breakers.

Well, for hard core boundary free skiers here (which we had a lot). They climb the Yotei whenever it is good weather. No gates, no ropes, no patrols, no boundary.

Hakuba
2011-07-01, 22:34
I remember a rope at Whistler with little flags on it warning of an avalanche area. Everyone was ducking it and having a great time on a great powder day. It was a good policy to warn people of the dangers and then let them accept the risk.

jackwan
2011-07-01, 22:50
There was a skier from Taiwan who lived in Squaw Valley, his family is well to do so he can ski all winter. Well, apparently after so many years, all areas in the Tahoe resorts are too boring for him and he started to climb cliffs and do back country. 4 years ago, he had a little fall from a slope on one of the peaks in Tahoe, I don't know how many feet he fell, but he was in the hospital for over 3 months. He is lucky to be alive.
His family decided to pull the lift ticket by moving him back to Taiwan and sold the place in Squaw Valley. I guess it is the ultimate ski patrol who did the job.:drunk:

Mike
2011-07-02, 13:29
There was a skier from Taiwan who lived in Squaw Valley, his family is well to do so he can ski all winter. Well, apparently after so many years, all areas in the Tahoe resorts are too boring for him and he started to climb cliffs and do back country. 4 years ago, he had a little fall from a slope on one of the peaks in Tahoe, I don't know how many feet he fell, but he was in the hospital for over 3 months. He is lucky to be alive.
His family decided to pull the lift ticket by moving him back to Taiwan and sold the place in Squaw Valley. I guess it is the ultimate ski patrol who did the job.:drunk:

Accident happens, might be he was looking for an excuse to go home (Taiwan) that's all. :smile1:
Not all off-piste are dangerous, many skiers in USA hiked up to the peak to ski the fresh snow in Tahoe and other resorts, but obviously only for those skiers with the the necessary physical and technical abilities. :icon_crutch:

Mike
2011-07-16, 16:56
The following video is posted in Youtube and in Epic, the accident was not due to skiing nor snowboarding, it happened when she was climbing on the north and west side of the Grand Teton last summer, she had a bad fall in a bad spot and ended up being rescued by the Jenny Lake Climbing Ranger team who has some of the best rescue climbers in the world - she was lucky.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvELquPtNIc&feature=player_embedded#at=499

Keep in mind how much the GoPro camera lens "flattens" the slope.

Mike
2011-07-25, 14:04
This is what happened when you lose your footings if mot careful

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QliBL-AQiAY&feature=player_embedded