南山滑雪行程

[unchu]

plan緊12月去bj6日, 其中去南山滑3日, 我係第一次去北京, 所以想去故宮, 食鴨, 羊肉火鍋, 行下王俯井大街, 同去溫泉, 有冇去過既朋友可以recommend下d行程, 我唸左好耐, 好似唔係好可行咁.

[TZR]

plan緊12月去bj6日, 其中去南山滑3日, 我係第一次去北京, 所以想去故宮, 食鴨, 羊肉火鍋, 行下王俯井大街, 同去溫泉, 有冇去過既朋友可以recommend下d行程, 我唸左好耐, 好似唔係好可行咁.

北京市中心，機場，南山，呢 3 個地方在地圖上，成一個倒轉的等邊 3 角形，所以無話去邊度先會方便 D！

即係等於 香港機場，元朗，香港仔，你話去邊先都得，但唔會係順路個隻！

車程方面，北京朝陽區，有公交車 (Bus) 入南山，全程 HighWay 約 1 小時 20 分鐘！
南山有公交車出北京市區，但去機場就多數自己約白牌 Van，車程約 1 小時 30 分鐘！(Van 仔會選 D 唔駛錢0既路，所以慢 D！)
機場出北京市就 30 ~40 分鐘，已經 o.k. 但繁忙時間可以塞上 1 小時或以上！

建議，先係北京市玩，飲飲食食先、再行埋北京市的 snowboard shop (有幾間 Shop 買 Ski Pass 有優惠) ，再自己入南山！
再由南山回程返機場，不用走回頭路！

溫泉方面，係南山週邊地區都有，不過絕對唔係 台、日、韓個 D 質素囉！

註：北京市白牌 Van 唔喜歡入南山，所以車費會好貴，最好坐公交車！
機場的士直入南山，要講彩數，唔係好多車肯入去！
南山 "出" 機場的白牌 Van 仔，無保險，風險要自行承擔！
南山白牌 Van 有大部份不能進入北京市，所以方向不能弄錯！

[TZR]

其實香港都有旅行團搞去南山，真係唔駛自己傷腦筋！

仲有有滑雪經驗領隊帶團，可參加埋滑雪課程！

交通方面又有保險，安全可靠！

等多一陣，應該會有資料！

[One2Free]

南山 for 3 days !??!
u'll be bored after the first few hrs ..

i suggest u go for 万龙 and/or 多乐美地 for 2 days ..
these 2 resorts r next to each other and 4 hrs drive from beijing ..
both r having new runs for 08/09 season ..
http://www.wlski.com/
http://www.dolomitiski.cn/

i'm planning to go twice a mth and usually go with ppl from this website:
http://www.lvye.info/modules/newbb/viewforum.php?forum=19

lots of hongkies r into skiing/boarding in beijing ..
let me know once u confirm ur dates and i can show u around !!!

if u wanna know more abt hongkies in beijing .. visit:
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=7510961627

[Kittyson]

Ha Ha right, you can go Wanlong instead, much much better ga ~

Let me know if you are coming la, and we can help you to arrange the transportation / tickets / hotels etc and go to ski together for sure ~

[TZR]

如果滑 3 日，仲要走兩個場，我個人覺得唔值得囉！

去萬龍，好彩 3.5 小時，唔好彩的話 (落雪)，近 5 小時車程！

唔係人人頂得順，我自己坐過 5 小時，真係........幾金架！

雖然萬龍真係一個不錯的雪場，南山只係一個 Park 場，真係無得比！

萬龍的消費，接近日韓，除了機票平一點之外，無特別吸引的地方！

今年的萬龍，有九成機會再加價，加上人民幣升值，值唔值得去，真係要計一計數！

[Kittyson]

Ha Ha right, transportation to Wanlong is really a big concern.......

However, for someone who haven't been to Beijing, a trip for ski + sightseeing is ok wo ~

BTW, 溫泉 is totally not recommended law.........

Oh BTW, if u want a 6 days trip, I can give you a suggestion as below ~
1st day - go wanlong from airport (wanlong can arrange airport pick up, good price)
2nd day - full day ski at wanlong
3rd day - full day ski at wanlong (take wanlong shuttle bus back to city at 5:30pm)
4th day - Forbidden City, TianAnMen Square, Summer Palace
5th day - Great Wall, Ming Tomb, Lotus Market
6th day - WangFuJiang city walk, back to HK

Once you confirmed your trip, I can give you more details and suggestions for eating and other nite activities ha ha ha ~

[jackwan]

I am not sure if there will be good snow in December, especially early December. As suggested, forget about Nansan for December, even if they open, you are going to ski on ice and water.

[Kittyson]

Normally mid Dec will be fine la ~

But Wanlong will be v expensive during x'mas and CNY holiday, not worth to go then...............

[unchu]

thanks all for your reply
我今次選去南山, 係打算正式搵coach學滑雪(貪平+同聲同氣), 我只係去年係芝山滑過一日雪, 果日冇英文coach, 我就企係d香港團隔黎偷聽個領隊教學.
12月中去避開x'mas嗎, 我2月會去北海道:)
暫定會住係密雲, 每日call van來回雪場, 貪佢有得massage同好似多d野食, 唔知有冇網友可以share下d酒店同食店?

[One2Free]

住喺北京都OK嫁喎 一粒鐘車就到南山啦
你又唔係淨係嚟滑雪 都會去D "名勝古跡" 嫁嘛

[yantong]

我上年去過南山兩日, 住在市中心, 早上要乘個多小時入南山都幾費時. 在密雲都有很多酒店選擇
http://www.hr558.com/my/my-jiudian.htm

我都想今個冬季再去北京滑雪架 :)

[One2Free]

leave me a message when u confirm ur trip lah ..

[Kittyson]

Yes Yes, let's go to play / eat / ski together in BJ ~

[unchu]

我上年去過南山兩日, 住在市中心, 早上要乘個多小時入南山都幾費時. 在密雲都有很多酒店選擇
http://www.hr558.com/my/my-jiudian.htm

我都想今個冬季再去北京滑雪架 :)

which hotel did u stay last year? does it near restaurants and massage?

[joseph]

hi! unchu
如果去6日,本人有以下意見
第1日-坐車到密雲
第2日-南山滑雪
第3日-南山滑雪
第4日-出市內觀光
第5日-市內觀光
第6日-上午觀光,,下午走
**看你坐什麼機,這是午機去,午機返行程
如果放滑雪在前,若果你真的想玩多日,都可以留低玩多日,如滑雪放在後就冇得咁靈活掉配時間.
又如果冇興趣滑,又可以玩1日即閃又得.
去南山滑雪,大部份人都會住金地來酒店

[bbmagic]

How much for rent the ski equipment in there

[hknz]

Nanshan is only suitable for Freestyle boarder or beginner because it is quite small
experts will find it very boring except there is a quite steep mogul trail.

walkin-rental is quite expensive, expecting a few hundred RMB per day,
there are discount over the marked price, but youve to know where to get it.
try to buy package or tour in hk if you are not familiar with beijing.

[Snow-Fever]

I am also interested to go but for snowboard only . Pls
let know your plan . :D

[louis8848]

多謝各位c hing 資料, 我都計劃緊xmas去南山滑雪, 初學者應該夠玩.
而且計劃住密云, 因我想去長城司馬台, 好似近d. 唔知有冇c hing 有經驗?:D

[One2Free]

too cold for 司馬台 during xmas lah ..
and not much to c .. everywhere 光秃秃 ..
no garantee for snow scene @ the great wall gah ..

try to post ur suggestions on this facebook grp ..
we sometimes organise trips and outings ..

"Hong Kong people in Beijing, 香港人在北京!"
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=7510961627

[yantong]

hi! unchu
如果去6日,本人有以下意見
第1日-坐車到密雲
第2日-南山滑雪
第3日-南山滑雪
第4日-出市內觀光
第5日-市內觀光
第6日-上午觀光,,下午走
**看你坐什麼機,這是午機去,午機返行程
如果放滑雪在前,若果你真的想玩多日,都可以留低玩多日,如滑雪放在後就冇得咁靈活掉配時間.
又如果冇興趣滑,又可以玩1日即閃又得.
去南山滑雪,大部份人都會住金地來酒店

**請問金地來酒店房租多少一晚? 我正在找尋近南山滑雪場的酒店.
是否經北京旅行社訂好? 請提供資料. 謝謝!

[yantong]

too cold for 司馬台 during xmas lah ..
and not much to c .. everywhere 光秃秃 ..
no garantee for snow scene @ the great wall gah ..

try to post ur suggestions on this facebook grp ..
we sometimes organise trips and outings ..

"Hong Kong people in Beijing, 香港人在北京!"
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=7510961627


**What's your name registered in Facebook?

[One2Free]

my name is Adam ........... LEE

[siugai]

**請問金地來酒店房租多少一晚? 我正在找尋近南山滑雪場的酒店.
是否經北京旅行社訂好? 請提供資料. 謝謝!

very good suggestions wor
but which hotel is actually OK at nanshan?

[yantong]

my name is Adam ........... LEE


There are sooo many Adam Lee (s).

[eric]

If you get 6-day leave, i recommend you go to Wan Long and/or Dolomiti.

[One2Free]

"Hong Kong people in Beijing, 香港人在北京!"
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=7510961627

there's only one adam lee in the above facebook grp lah !!!

[Kittyson]

Ha Ha, if u can't find Adam Lee, u can find me, only 1 Kittyson there ~~~

[yantong]

Ha Ha, if u can't find Adam Lee, u can find me, only 1 Kittyson there ~~~

** Hi Kittyson, I found you there, but can't see your profile as I am not your friends group.
By the way, have you been to 怀北国际滑雪场 ?

[yantong]

"Hong Kong people in Beijing, 香港人在北京!"
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=7510961627

there's only one adam lee in the above facebook grp lah !!!

**I found you there finally :p

[One2Free]

good ..
leave me a message in facebook ..
or post a wall in the grp ..

[One2Free]

btw .. anyone interested in more skiing/boarding in mainland china ..
check out 绿野户外
http://www.lvye.info/modules/newbb/viewforum.php?forum=19
they operate similar to HKSSA ..
but dedicated to all sorta outdoor (and sometimes indoor) activities around china ..
and they organise skiing/boarding trips on a wkly basis in the coming season ..

[Kittyson]

** Hi Kittyson, I found you there, but can't see your profile as I am not your friends group.
By the way, have you been to 怀北国际滑雪场 ?

I only tried Wanlong and Nanshan in Beijing, becos my ski friends here all told me Nanshan is the best among those near Beijing city (around 1 hr ride from city), and Wanlong is the best in Beijing (although a bit far away from Beijing city......)

[yantong]

I asked for 怀北滑雪场 because it might be close to 慕田峪 where I want to go.

[Kittyson]

Nanshan is ok close to 慕田峪 also.

[One2Free]

慕田峪 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ yeh !!!

where issit !?

[Kittyson]

see this (http://destguides.ctrip.com/china/beijing/sight243/), both 慕田峪长城 and Nanshan are along 京承高速 ga, ok close to go from Nanshan !!

also, 慕田峪长城 is much better than 八达岭长城 ga !!

[yantong]

慕田峪 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ yeh !!!

where issit !?

Let's go with us to 慕田峪 la!

[One2Free]

又长城啊?
个日饮茶话去D舒服D既地方woh.................

[Kittyson]

又长城啊?
个日饮茶话去D舒服D既地方woh.................

舒服D既地方 ?? u mean mahjong ??? should change the name of the Facebook group to "Lazy HK people in Beijing" .........

[bbmagic]

can u tell me how can i go to 南山 when i live in 王府井大饭店, 王府井大饭店is is closed to the MTR station, where can i buy some ski equipment in there

[One2Free]

going to nanshan on public transport is absolutely no fun at all ..
i tried that few yrs ago ..
goto 东直门 coach terminal by taxi or metro/subway/MTR ..
catch a bus route XXX .. which i forgot .. u'll find that from nanshan website ..
then u'll have to drop off at a town (i forgot as well .. haha)
and then catch a taxi ..
worst thing is u have to do the same thing for the return trip ..
ouch .........................

so if anyone have any beta ideas on public transports ..
plz let me know as well ..

or else .. joining a local tour operator is the ideal way ..
i have posted links to a grp organising trips in beijing ..
check that out .. many operators having ski trips all over winter ..

u'll find nothing decent near 王府井 for snow gears ..
catch the metro to 慈器口 .. head to 大都市.. u'll find good stuffs there !!!

maybe we can meet up when u r here ..
lots of hongkies in beijing !!!

[yantong]

can u tell me how can i go to 南山 when i live in 王府井大饭店, 王府井大饭店is is closed to the MTR station, where can i buy some ski equipment in there

**You can take subway to 東直門站 , then walk to the bus terminus and find bus no. 980 to 密云. Then take taxi to Nanshan from 密云. You can check with the driver for the nearest station to Nanshan. When do you go to Nanshan?

[One2Free]

trust me .. dun try public transports ..
with ur skis/board (or both !?) .. its super clumsy with the local crowds ..

[bbmagic]

軍都山 or 南山 which one is better for beginner ski/snow and easy to go there
I thing around end of 2008 will go there for ski

[One2Free]

nanshan for sure ..
think the instructors r beta ..

[yantong]

trust me .. dun try public transports ..
with ur skis/board (or both !?) .. its super clumsy with the local crowds ..

**We went to Nanshan by public transportation last year.. No problem for us la...

[One2Free]

haha .. u have to show me lah ..
but i still prefer to go with 绿野户外

[yantong]

haha .. u have to show me lah ..
but i still prefer to go with 绿野户外
** what's the schedule organised by 绿野户外 tgen?

[One2Free]

http://www.lvye.info/modules/newbb/viewforum.php?forum=19
check the above site in abt 2-3 wks time ..
they will organise trips to all resorts during season ..
so stay tune !!!

[louis8848]

c hing, 南山滑雪場附近有咩經濟形住宿推介? 因計劃玩兩日, 唔想每日來回北京.
此外, 現場係咪有滑雪裝束租借?例如:雪褲.

謝謝!:)

[One2Free]

u can rent all the gear including 雪褲 .. except beanies .. goggle .. gloves ..
check out their website for details and prices ..
http://www.nanshanski.com/news/Content.Asp?ID=51

for accommodation .. i never stay near nanshan .. (as i live in beijing city lah)
but u may also wanna check out their website ..
http://www.nanshanski.com/news/Content.Asp?ID=48

[yantong]

c hing, 南山滑雪場附近有咩經濟形住宿推介? 因計劃玩兩日, 唔想每日來回北京.
此外, 現場係咪有滑雪裝束租借?例如:雪褲.

謝謝!:)

When will you go to Beijng? I plan to go there in December and will stay in 密雲 near Nanshan.

[louis8848]

When will you go to Beijng? I plan to go there in December and will stay in 密雲 near Nanshan.

I plan to go BJ on 23-31/12 & snow boarding on 29-30/12.:)

[louis8848]

u can rent all the gear including 雪褲 .. except beanies .. goggle .. gloves ..
check out their website for details and prices ..
http://www.nanshanski.com/news/Content.Asp?ID=51

for accommodation .. i never stay near nanshan .. (as i live in beijing city lah)
but u may also wanna check out their website ..
http://www.nanshanski.com/news/Content.Asp?ID=48

Thanks a lot c hing!:)

[One2Free]

let me know ur dates .. maybe i can organise some gatherings with the "local-hongkies" !!!

[幽冉]

雪服与雪裤滑雪场内有租的。一套是30元/天使用费，滑雪场内也有好多商店，到时看到有喜欢的也可以买新的。
住宿方面：便宜的酒店一百多块钱的也有。三星的二百多块钱。五星的是四百多块钱

住宿最好是提前定好，到了12月份一月份，酒店方面也会比较紧张

[888eck]

想問一下, 小弟打算今年聖誕去南山滑3日雪, 我需要在香港訂定位嗎? 還時到時直接買票入埸就可以呢? 如需預先在香港訂位, 要怎樣做呢? 因小弟是新手一名,唔該晒!!

[One2Free]

hk snowboarder 個邊有搞南山團喎
http://www.hksnowboarder.com/viewthread.php?tid=1567&extra=page%3D1

又可以同local團去
我通常跟綠野戶外去
留意呢個website
遲D南山開波就會有團去嫁啦
http://www.lvye.info/modules/newbb/viewforum.php?forum=19

但係我唔知南山附近有咩酒店
因為南山近市區 所以我就會番屋企嘅

[samz]

hi there..just wondering which of the place out of 万龙 / 多乐美地 / 南山 would be good for skiing overall then? as i'm planning to go around early jan.
thanks!

[One2Free]

wanlong + dolomiti are bigger and beta snow .. but further from beijing ..
nanshan .. too crowded on wkends .. but closer loh

[unchu]

有冇人可以提供南山租車去機場既安排?? 我問過一個佢quote $400, 好貴呀

[One2Free]

差唔多啦 佢要空車入去接你出嚟 依家大陸D油價冇跌喎 (有傳話12月會減價)

[老妖]

Ha Ha right, you can go Wanlong instead, much much better ga ~

Let me know if you are coming la, and we can help you to arrange the transportation / tickets / hotels etc and go to ski together for sure ~


I want to go 南山 on march, still have the enough snow for ski? Would you please to give me some information about hotel and transportation? Is hotel which inside the ski slope? I would like to book a van between airport to hotel. I think that I will go for 3-4 days. many thanks!:)

[Mike]

I want to go 南山 on march, still have the enough snow for ski? Would you please to give me some information about hotel and transportation? Is hotel which inside the ski slope? I would like to book a van between airport to hotel. I think that I will go for 3-4 days. many thanks!:)

Please read earlier postings of this thread for requested info.

As far as I understand there is no real snow in 南山, only man made snow. :D

[PALGO]

請問大家可否提供由北京機場去南山白牌Ｖａｎ的資料,的士和白牌Ｖａｎ大概多少錢:confused:

多謝幫忙!!!:)

[Iridewithme]

有冇人會12月29,30號去南山snowboard呀? 想問下係咪人造雪/冰呢?
我地會有3個人去, 如果時間夾到可以一齊玩架

[kazuma]

我一月4日去呀~~~

[bbmagic]

i go there in3 jan 2010

[kazuma]

我地jion一齊去都得呀

[PALGO]

I go on 1 jan but i don't know how to go there, because i go with two children?????

[bbmagic]

I go 南山 in3, 4 and 6 Jan 2010 from 王府井side

[Kittyson]

Nanshan has shuttle bus everyday, check it out here, good deal indeed.

http://www.nanshanski.com/web_cn/content.asp?id=97

[PALGO]

How about if i go from airport????

[Kittyson]

You can call my Nanshan agent to arrange necessary transportation for you
Please PM

[dinga899]

我地一行5人 , 都係12月27日到南山玩幾日, 有時間約一起玩都好啊~:)

[PALGO]

Hi Kittyson,

I can book the car already.

Thank you very much!!!!

PALGO

[PALGO]

I just come back from Nanshan, very very GOOD!!!!

[manmanvivi]

hello~~~~ 我係超新手一名，其實我已經有機票去北京，打算呢幾日會飛去滑雪，因為機票又可以任改，我又在放長假中，預了一個時間去玩的，所以想問o下各位大大，有什麼suggestion呢? 我只是在以前在韓國旅行時滑過雪超鍾意~~! 睇過好多info都話去北京就去南山，所以想問o下大家可唔可以俾o的咩suggestion我呢? 我都係一個咁~~~~~! 其實是不是在北京城入面住都可以? 定還是在雪場附近住? 同埋我應該去邊度先訂雪票呢? 我見到walk-in貴好多呀~~~

[domcheng]

住係北京市內應該太遠了, 不塞車都要1個鐘. 附近都有1-2間4星酒店. 住得過. 上次我們去呢間, rmb$200+.

北京文锦世博国际大酒店地址：http://maps.gstatic.cn/intl/zh-CN_cn/mapfiles/transparent.png‎
北京市密云县滨河路46号[/URL]

公交／驾车 (http://ditu.google.cn/)
010-89080448
wenjinshibo.com (http://ditu.google.cn/local_url?q=www.wenjinshibo.com/&dq=%E4%BD%8F%E5%AE%BF&f=q&source=s_q&output=js&hl=zh-CN&geocode=&brcurrent=5,0.2,1&brv=20.22&vps=7&jsv=200b&sll=40.376341,116.843063&sspn=0.751162,1.234589&g=%E5%8C%97%E4%BA%AC%E5%B8%82%E5%AF%86%E4%BA%91%E5%8E%BF&oi=miw&sa=X&ct=miw_link&cd=1&cad=homepage,cid:4722603574950944869&ei=VLBdS8qRIKbKugPam724CQ&s=ANYYN7kw7b3FyN3iQS06gU3KEVV_OuOGYA)

如果你一個人, 可以介紹vikki 比你識. 上[url]www.hksnowboarder.com 佢可以幫你安排, 又可以教 snowboard.

[manmanvivi]

其實我識識地ski的，o個次都是旅行團去玩，學了少少，
所謂的識識地就是上o左去滑落來冇事o個隻，轉o下右同左咁嘛~

我就係好想今次學好佢，同埋如果可以就學埋snowboard。

唔該晒你呀~~~
呢位vikki是北京人嗎?

[domcheng]

其實我識識地ski的，o個次都是旅行團去玩，學了少少，
所謂的識識地就是上o左去滑落來冇事o個隻，轉o下右同左咁嘛~

我就係好想今次學好佢，同埋如果可以就學埋snowboard。

唔該晒你呀~~~
呢位vikki是北京人嗎?

哦, vikki 係hk人, 長期在南山!

佢只係教snowboard. 玩snowboard 型好多呀! 我建議ski 轉 snowboard! :)

[slmama]

Hi,

I am planning to go skiing with my family during CNY (16 - 19 Feb), which is the place to go Nanshan or Wan Long?
I am worry that Nanshan is too crowded cos I have 2 young kids (10 and 5 yrs) and I am planning to arrange ski lessons for them.
I heard Wan Long is much bigger than Nanshan and less crowded, is it worth to take the long trip to Wan Long, considering 4 - 5 hrs drive per trip and higher price for chair lifts and transportation costs?

Any advice is appreciated!

[seemanwu]

I just come back and I bring my 6-year kid too. I have arrange ski instructure to teach and protect them from the crowd, so it is ok.

Ski lesson for 3 hours is $260 RMB and the tips is $100. My instructure is very patiece and my kid leard how to ski in one day. (if you like, I can tell you his name).

(He tried snowboard for 2 days, cannot pick up snowboard)

[slmama]

seemanwu,

Thanks for your reply. Yes, please tell my the instructor's name and his contact no. Do we need to book him in advance? Did you stay near Nanshan or in Beijing and how did you arrange transportation to Nanshan? Thanks for your help!

[b4321]

在北京, 如果的士司機距絕由機場到南山雪場(佢載)是否犯法?

[domcheng]

在北京, 如果的士司機距絕由機場到南山雪場(佢載)是否犯法?

大部份北京的士司機好煩好無禮貌. 犯法佢都會粗聲粗氣同你嘈.
我係市中心佢都拒載. 始終由機場到南山雪場都有1-2hrs.
:)

[domcheng]

Hi,

I am planning to go skiing with my family during CNY (16 - 19 Feb), which is the place to go Nanshan or Wan Long?
I am worry that Nanshan is too crowded cos I have 2 young kids (10 and 5 yrs) and I am planning to arrange ski lessons for them.
I heard Wan Long is much bigger than Nanshan and less crowded, is it worth to take the long trip to Wan Long, considering 4 - 5 hrs drive per trip and higher price for chair lifts and transportation costs?

Any advice is appreciated!

Last time I went there with my wife and 2 kids (4 and 6) with her. Arrangement is good.
http://www.hksnowboarder.com/viewthread.php?tid=2612&page=6

[slmama]

Last time I went there with my wife and 2 kids (4 and 6) with her. Arrangement is good.
http://www.hksnowboarder.com/viewthread.php?tid=2612&page=6

Hi domcheng,

Very useful info, thanks! I would definitely join her package if I have known this earlier but I have already issued the air tickets :(. Anyway, will try to contact Ms Vikki to see if she could make some local arrangement for me. How long you have to wait to get on to the chairlifts at Nanshan, just trying to gauge how crowded would the place be during CNY.

[domcheng]

Hi domcheng,

Very useful info, thanks! I would definitely join her package if I have known this earlier but I have already issued the air tickets :(. Anyway, will try to contact Ms Vikki to see if she could make some local arrangement for me. How long you have to wait to get on to the chairlifts at Nanshan, just trying to gauge how crowded would the place be during CNY.

Honestly, I thought it would be pretty bad. The queue is gonna be loooooonnnnnnggggg.