Skis - race tune

[Mike]

One should try a race tune. The ski WILL COME ALIVE.....But that is another topic.

Stillskiing - would you like to do that? :) I mean to start a new topic on "race tune".

[skier]

....... One should try a race tune. The ski WILL COME ALIVE.....But that is another topic.


Does a race tune also mean more acute angles ?

For the benefit of HKSSA members, I will bring this to their attention:
Years back, all ski edges are 90 degrees and 0, 0 -- meaning that the base to the steel edges are flush, and the steel edge goes 'straight up' making the edge 90 degrees.

Now all stock skis have some kind of bevel. e.g. 1, 1 meaning that when the base go to the steel edge, the base bevel is one degree slanted up. But the wall of the steel edge also slanted in one degree (edge bevel) making it still 90 degrees -- the reason that it is 1, 1 is so that it (with the base bevel of 1 instead of 0) will not catch an edge unwantedly (too reactive) -- it is good to roll to engage an edge.

Now different stock skis have different bevels as standards, eg:

Atomic 1, 3
K2 0.5, 1
Volkl 1, 2

Racers tune their ski according to what they think the course condition of the day of the race will be, and to their individul's liking. So it could be 2, 5 to handle icy condition in a Super GS event.

If it is that extreme, we mortals won't be able to handle it.


Here is an article on base bevel:

http://www.snocountry.com/index.php/skiride-better-now/equipment-center/80-basic-rules-regarding-base-bevel.html

Another good article on Edge Angles and Sidewalls:

http://www.edgewiseskitunes.com/articles.html?ref=11&sp=4

[Mike]

Tuning a pair of skis whether for recreational use or for racing purpose, the basic procedure is similar. It is the way how to prepare the base and the usage of material that makes the difference.

For tuning a pair of skis for recreational use, you will want the skis to be suitable for most condition and different terrain. You also want the skis to be tuned in such a way that the user can handle them.

For race tuning, the skis have to be tuned to suit a particular skier, the discipline he competes in, the condition of the course at the time of competition - ie. it is very specific.

Tuning the skis for racing is not just about the base bevel angle and edge bevel angle.
The structure of the base also makes a big difference. Structure helps to break up the water suction and opens up the base so it will accept wax more easily. You heard about linear structure and cross-hatch structure, it is also noted that a lot of the speed skis have a cross-hatch pattern. You might also have heard of medium or fine linear structure or a coarse structure. Coarse structure is real aggressive and can make the ski hard to turn which is why it is used mostly for downhill or speed skis and wet snow.

Wax also makes a big difference as well, different wax for different snow conditions. Wax additives such as "speedpaste" or "speedpowder" can make the skis glide a lot faster, but these additives do not last long and are very expensive.
Hence, the skis have to be prepared in such a way that they are 100% fit for the skiers and the course at the time of competition.

Stillskiing & Skier - anything to add or comment?

[skier]

Absolutely, tuning and waxing for racing is a Science as well as an art like cooking -- you may have the recipe but the result may not taste good.

Top WC racers all have special technicians that do the tuning and waxing, with secret wax formula and tuning secret/subtlety. Skiing technique has to be complimented by the right tuning and the wax -- after all, just the wax alone can make a big difference when one second difference can mean a medal vs. none.

But for us recreational skiers, all we need to make sure is that we have a good ironed-in wax for a pair of new skis. And then you can replenish it with hot wax or even spray wax every few days of skiing so it will glide well.

Tune the edges if it gets dull from skiing icy conditions for many days. We do not need to be so finicky. Pay more attention to improving techniques instead of worrying too much on tuning side of things -- yes, base need to be flat, edges need to be relatively sharp and need to have wax for better glide, and that is all.:)

[Mike]

I mentioned "structure" above. So, what really does that mean?

It is all about the little grooves on the bottom of the skis. Structuring is the practice of creating a series of very small, parallel grooves on the entire surface of the ski bases.
The purpose of structuring is to make sure that the theoretically proper amount of water is created between ski and snow as you glide. Whether or not this is actually the mechanics involved is subject to much discussions.

Structure needs to be small grooves when snow temperatures are cold, and they need to be bigger when snow temperature starts to warm up.

In cold, dry snow you want to increase the amount of water present between the ski and snow for maximum glide. You do this by increasing the friction between the ski base and the snow. By increasing the volume of base that touches the snow, you increase friction. So, you want to have lots of grooves. The more, the better. To increase the number of grooves, they have to be small.

In warm, wet snow you have the reverse problem. Too much friction creates too much water which sucks your skis to the snow, makes them feel "sticky." Now you need coarser structure.

After you structure the ski base, you need to wax them. Wax naturally fills in all the grooves. So you you need to use a stiff brush after waxing because you want to get the wax out of the grooves, in other words, it should "coat" the grooves, not fill them in.

[Mike]

So what about the edge angles that "Skier" mentioned in his earlier posting above.

A lot of studies were carried out by different manufacturers, organisations, national team, racers etc. on what different edge angles will do to the behaviour of the skis. One such study came out with the following finding:

The test was to actually ski on different edge angles to see if one could feel how the ski changed when different base and side edge angles were ground into the ski.

They started with two identical racing skis mounted with two identical bindings. For their first test they varied just the base edge. They tuned Ski "A" to 1º base edge and 2º side edge. The Ski "B" was 1/2º base and 2º side. They could clearly feel how much quicker Ski "B" was to start the turn and how much less angulation it took to hold. They also learned that a 1º base edge angle was more forgiving for less aggressive skiers.

For the second part of the test they tuned the base edges of both skis at 1/2º. Ski "A" had a 2º side edge angle and Ski "B" was tuned with a 3º side edge. In normal free skiing they found that it was difficult to feel much difference between the two side edges. However, when they really laid the ski over and ripped (like running gates in a slalom course) the 3º side edge held much better. They find that most recreational skiers prefer a 2º side edge, racers a 3º. An exception to this would be young, lower level junior racers. 3º side edges are more demanding to ski on. They are unforgiving in that they won't slide or skid which can be harmful to the knee. Many coaches recommend that younger skiers use a 2º side edge.

[skier]

To augment what Mike said, the following is an excerpt from the link I gave above:

The flatter the bevel, the quicker the ski’s edge will engage. As you start to give the ski more bevel, the ski begins to need more angle before it engages, thus making it a slower reaction. This has the same effect as canting. If you cant the boots to the outside, you get a faster reaction and to the inside, a slower reaction. Under these rules, it is also true that base bevel changes for different events. In slalom, we want a very quick reaction, in GS a little less and in DH, the skis need to be very subtle with edge engagement.

[Mike]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UpsdZXT3Nc&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93cwixAn-LE&feature=related

[Mike]

Very interesting discussion between a WC racer and his ski technican on ski preparation :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PW_Tvx6cUY8

[Mike]

Very interesting discussion between a WC racer and his ski technican on ski preparation :


As a matter of interest, the hand held machine that the technican is using in the video is a "Trione", which is the most used device in the WC circuit. It costs about 1,200 Euros each.

Another brand that is equally popular with the American is "Snow Glide"
( http://www.snowglidetools.com/snow.glide.tools.html ).

One word of caution is the danger to your health using these machines - they put off a very fine cloud of metal dust that can be breathed into your lungs. There has been a few WC technicans that have experienced issues with this dust getting into their lungs. Eye protection and a respirator is mandatory. Also prefer to have some type of magnets on the tool or on the edge of your bench below your vice to pull the dust out of the air.

Also, note that there are still many WC technicans (especially in SG and Downhill) that still use hand files. For an individual racer, doing only your own skis, you will find that by the time you set up the machine, you could have touched up your skis with a file.

[Mike]

If anyone thinks that a 3 degree side edge dulls quicker then a 1 or 2 degree, it is not the case, certainly not with the skis of nowadays. The edge angle isn't going to change either, ie. not going to change from a 3 degree to a 2 degree, but the edge is getting progressively rounder the more it is skied on (that is without being re-sharpened).

Having said that, the base bevel does increase with skiing. The constant abrasion of the snow and ice on the base edge rubs steel edge material away and increases the base bevel.

[snowrider]

...
Top WC racers all have special technicians that do the tuning and waxing ...


I don't know if that is the case, but all the racers that I know in my local area tune skis themsleves. Also 99% instructors that I know tune skis themselves.

Of course I tune my skis/board myself too. Why? It's not about saving money, but it's about that nobody knows how I feel about my skis on my feet except myself.

[Mike]

I don't know if that is the case, but all the racers that I know in my local area tune skis themsleves. Also 99% instructors that I know tune skis themselves.

Of course I tune my skis/board myself too. Why? It's not about saving money, but it's about that nobody knows how I feel about my skis on my feet except myself.

I think both of you are correct. I was talking to an ex-WC racers in Switzerland few years ago, he tuned his own skis everyday and he told me that he had a full supporting team to tune his skis when he was racing on the WC circuit. Local racers might not have the same back-up as those WC racers.

As a matter of interest, what angles do you set your skis at?

[snowrider]

I think both of you are correct. I was talking to an ex-WC racers in Switzerland few years ago, he tuned his own skis everyday and he told me that he had a full supporting team to tune his skis when he was racing on the WC circuit. Local racers might not have the same back-up as those WC racers.

As a matter of interest, what angles do you set your skis at?

I tune my skis pretty much the standard:
1-degree beveler for the base
2-degree beveler for side

But I sharpen them almost after every ski days (because of the eastern icy cement dull the edge very quick) with diamond stone. I use file to sharpen around every 5 ski days or if the edges hit some rock. When I use file, I then also do base repairment and wax.

[snowrider]

BTW, I keep my skis very sharp (as sharp as a knife) so that you can use them to cut paper, in order to keep good condition for skiing on ice.

[skier]

I tune my skis pretty much the standard:
1-degree beveler for the base
2-degree beveler for side

But I sharpen them almost after every ski days (because of the eastern icy cement dull the edge very quick) with diamond stone. I use file to sharpen around every 5 ski days or if the edges hit some rock. When I use file, I then also do base repairment and wax.

Do you not use a preset tool so that the 1-degree base and 2-degree side bevel is correct and constant all the way through?

[Mckay]

BTW, I keep my skis very sharp (as sharp as a knife) so that you can use them to cut paper, in order to keep good condition for skiing on ice.

I don't know why it's hard to tune old skis sharp and ir's very easy to tune them sharp when they are new. I like the edges to be sharp.

[Mckay]

Do you not use a preset tool so that the 1-degree base and 2-degree side bevel is correct and constant all the way through?

I don't have much knowledge about ski tuning but just like sharp edges. So i like new skis.

[eLeung]

I don't have much knowledge about ski tuning but just like sharp edges. So i like new skis.

Skier and Mike gave me a lesson few weeks ago. :clap1:

[Mike]

But I sharpen them almost after every ski days (because of the eastern icy cement dull the edge very quick) with diamond stone. I use file to sharpen around every 5 ski days or if the edges hit some rock. When I use file, I then also do base repairment and wax.

Do you not use a preset tool so that the 1-degree base and 2-degree side bevel is correct and constant all the way through?

Use a diamond file if you have a nick on the edge (due to hitting some rocks), a diamond file will remove the hot spot. I always hot wax my skis irrespect of whether I am working on the edges or not. There is no over-waxing.

For "new hand" (like me) it is recommended to use a file guide, but I know and have seen experienced skiers tuning their skis "free-hand". :icon_good::icon_adore:

[snowrider]

Do you not use a preset tool so that the 1-degree base and 2-degree side bevel is correct and constant all the way through?

Yes, I do use bevelers. I have a 2-degree (88-degree) beveler for the side. We don't need to file the base very often, so I borrow my mentor's beveler for the base once a season.

[snowrider]

I don't know why it's hard to tune old skis sharp and ir's very easy to tune them sharp when they are new. I like the edges to be sharp.

I wipe dry my skis after skiing so that they won't get rusted. If they are rusty, the edges become round shape, which requires a lot of filing to get back to good condition - and hence that the life span of the edges become shorter.

[snowrider]

Use a diamond file if you have a nick on the edge (due to hitting some rocks), a diamond file will remove the hot spot. I always hot wax my skis irrespect of whether I am working on the edges or not. There is no over-waxing.

...

Yes, I agree when it is just a small nick. I use file when the scratch is very bad. If there is no scratch, I still use file like every 5 skis days, but I use diamond stone every ski day though. The reason that I don't wax everyday is that I am too lazy to put them on the workbench unless I really need to (when I use file).

[snowrider]

But actually I don't think that you guys need to sharpen the ski very much in the West or at Whistler. You don't have much ice there, but I do have a lot ice here in the East.

[Mike]

But actually I don't think that you guys need to sharpen the ski very much in the West or at Whistler. You don't have much ice there, but I do have a lot ice here in the East.

Everytime you file the edges, you take a bit off the meat. So, don't get carry away too much. :icon_chair:

After filing the edges for some time, you will find the sidewall of your skis in the way, you will then need a sidewall planer to shave a bit of the sidewall off to make room for your file.

[snowrider]

Everytime you file the edges, you take a bit off the meat. So, don't get carry away too much. :icon_chair:

After filing the edges for some time, you will find the sidewall of your skis in the way, you will then need a sidewall planer to shave a bit of the sidewall off to make room for your file.

Yes I agree. I think that it's also about the time to sell the old skis and get a new pair.

[Mike]

Yes I agree. I think that it's also about the time to sell the old skis and get a new pair.

Yes, but sometimes your old pair of skis can't be replaced because the manufacturer has stopped the production and the new models are not the same, eg. Volkl Racetiger cannot match and replace the old Supersports.

And, I do not think you can find a shop which can and will replace the edges of your skis for you nowadays. :bill:

[Mckay]

Everytime you file the edges, you take a bit off the meat. So, don't get carry away too much. :icon_chair:

After filing the edges for some time, you will find the sidewall of your skis in the way, you will then need a sidewall planer to shave a bit of the sidewall off to make room for your file.


I finally bought one few weeks ago and took off quite a bit of stuff from the sidewall

[Mike]

For ultimate DIY ski tuning, one should consider buying a Wintersteiger Discman Ceramic Edge Finisher.

The Discman is a portable, hand held battery operated ceramic side edge tuning tool. The Ceramic sharpening disc gives you a very smooth edge finish that will stay sharper for longer. The Ceramic Disc is quick and efficient and does not take off much edge, prolonging the life of the ski. Make your sharpening between runs slightly less frantic! The Discman can be set to any edge angle between 85 and 90 degrees in ½ degree steps.

[snowrider]

For ultimate DIY ski tuning, one should consider buying a Wintersteiger Discman Ceramic Edge Finisher.

The Discman is a portable, hand held battery operated ceramic side edge tuning tool. The Ceramic sharpening disc gives you a very smooth edge finish that will stay sharper for longer. The Ceramic Disc is quick and efficient and does not take off much edge, prolonging the life of the ski. Make your sharpening between runs slightly less frantic! The Discman can be set to any edge angle between 85 and 90 degrees in ½ degree steps.

Mike - This sounds like a good tool. However, after I did some quick research on the internet, I found that for the purpose of quick sharpening it's too expensive ($800) for me. Also, the following comments from epicski is very informative:
http://www.epicski.com/forum/thread/58704/anyone-have-experience-with-the-wintersteiger-discman#post_761081

[Mike]

Mike - This sounds like a good tool. However, after I did some quick research on the internet, I found that for the purpose of quick sharpening it's too expensive ($800) for me. Also, the following comments from epicski is very informative:
http://www.epicski.com/forum/thread/58704/anyone-have-experience-with-the-wintersteiger-discman#post_761081

The Discman costs a lot less in the UK. I was given a demonstration couple of years ago, very impressive, it gives a very nice finish. But as the guy in Epic said, it takes practice to use the tool effectively. There are some plastic parts in the tool and together with the ceramic disc, they need to be replaced now and then.

For your info, all major ski shops in the UK will automatically finish the tuning with a ceramic finsih. Edges with a ceramic finish will last longer than one without. :icon_good:

To be honest, I am tempted. :think:

[Mike]

This is a cheaper alternative to the Wintersteiger Ceramic Discman


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1T_19v_9F8

[snowrider]

This is a cheaper alternative to the Wintersteiger Ceramic Discman


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1T_19v_9F8


It's still too big to carry. This can be used for tuning on a workbench. If you want to sharpen before each run (which I don't do that this often), a diamond stone is much more convenient than this big grinder.

[snowrider]

Oh BTW, I am not a racer. I don't want you to mistakenly think that I am a racer. Racers might sharpen their skis before every run.

[Mike]

It's still too big to carry. This can be used for tuning on a workbench. If you want to sharpen before each run (which I don't do that this often), a diamond stone is much more convenient than this big grinder.

Snowrider, this tool is not meant for you to carry. You do not require to polish your ski edges with the ceramic stone after every run nor everyday, as a ceramic stone finish will make the sharpness of your edges last longer.

For taking to the slope, I have a handy small edge guide with a diamond stone for the job.

[Mike]

This is a cheaper alternative to the Wintersteiger Ceramic Discman


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1T_19v_9F8

Having looking into this "Edge Tune Pro" more closely, I think the Wintersteiger Discman is far more superior. With the Dremel or Black & Decker tool, this tool lacks the precision that Wintersteiger has for polishing the edge. That is why this Ege Tune Pro is only one fifth the cost of the Wintersteiger. :bill:

[Mike]

The Discman costs a lot less in the UK. I was given a demonstration couple of years ago, very impressive, it gives a very nice finish. But as the guy in Epic said, it takes practice to use the tool effectively. There are some plastic parts in the tool and together with the ceramic disc, they need to be replaced now and then.

For your info, all major ski shops in the UK will automatically finish the tuning with a ceramic finsih. Edges with a ceramic finish will last longer than one without. :icon_good:

To be honest, I am tempted. :think:

As I said I was tempted, here is a photo of the Discman (my new toy): :bash::icon_chair:

[Mike]

Yes, I do use bevelers. I have a 2-degree (88-degree) beveler for the side. We don't need to file the base very often, so I borrow my mentor's beveler for the base once a season.

Snowrider, you are absolutely right.
After the initial tune, one should not further touch the base edge.

When setting initial base bevel use the finsest file you can find and then polish with a gummi or even better - an arkansas. Not diamond files. All further tuning and all maintainace is done on the side edge only until the next stone-grind!

[Mike]

Normally, one use standard hydrocarbon wax for standard base tuning method. However, for racing, specialist fluorocarbon waxes and overlays can be ‘rubbed’ on over the hydrocarbon ‘base coat’ and then ironed in/scraped in the conventional way.

Some fluoro waxes & overlays are designed to be ‘corked’ in. After rubbing the wax over the base making slightly over-lapping passes from the tip to tail, begin blending the wax into the base by rubbing it with the cork block using moderate pressure from tip to tail. The heat generated by the friction of the cork will warm the base and melt the wax, which will start to disappear into the base. Continued strokes with the cork will ensure that the wax is absorbed into the base. These specialist waxes & overlays then need plenty of polishing with the horsehair and nylon brushes and then fiberlene to bring out a real high speed shine on the base.

Many racers believe in ‘wet polishing’. After horsehair brushing they spray a fine mist of clean water on the base and then use short, over-lapping tip to tail strokes with a medium to long bristled nylon brush. The result of this process is a finely polished surface. It also decreases the static generating effects caused by friction against polyethylene bases.

Note: Flouro waxes need to be regularly cleaned from the base by hot scraping as the flouro tends to dry out the base.

[Mike]

Someone asked whether lubricants should be used when tuning ski edges? Lubricants range from water to honing oils, etc.

Some people said No
Reason - While it is true that lubricants help the cutting action of stones or files, the problem is when you are tuning edges you are constantly producing "waste" in the forms of metal and dust. Lubricants will promote driving the waste/filings into the base pores, whereas if the stones or files are used dry, the dust/filings can simply be wiped off.

[Mike]

In posting #39, I mentioned specialist fluorocarbon waxes. Holmenkollen waxes is the market leader in this field. :icon_good:

In Asia, Gallium wax of Japan is well known and the performance of their waxes is highly praised internationally. The fact is Gallium's fluor wax composition is somewhat different from other makes. The unique thing about their products - Doctor FCG Maxfluor, Gigaspeed, and Gigaspeed Maxfluor Moist, is that they contain gallium and fluoro carbons, which make the wax extreme durable and provides excellent glide in humid to wet snow conditions down to minus six or seven degrees Celsius if the humidity is over 70 percent. Also they are extremely easy to work with because it is applied to the bases after all the waxing and manual rilling is done. You can wax a pair of skis in 30 seconds. :icon_good:

[snowrider]

Someone asked whether lubricants should be used when tuning ski edges? Lubricants range from water to honing oils, etc.

Answer is NO!
Reason - While it is true that lubricants help the cutting action of stones or files, the problem is when you are tuning edges you are constantly producing "waste" in the forms of metal and dust. Lubricants will promote driving the waste/filings into the base pores, whereas if the stones or files are used dry, the dust/filings can simply be wiped off.

Mike - Thanks for the information. I was told to use some soap water (or water) when using diamond stone in order to make the stone last longer. It's good to know that the waste is bad to the base.

[Mike]

Mike - Thanks for the information. I was told to use some soap water (or water) when using diamond stone in order to make the stone last longer. It's good to know that the waste is bad to the base.

Snowrider,
Diamond stones and ceramic stones are used for two purposes:
1st, to take the burrs off the edges after a day of skiing (especially if you've skied on ice or rocks!) before you start filing.
2nd, to take the fine burrs of the edges after you have completed your filing. A diamond or ceramic stone will polish up the edges and harden them against future burring.

Some diamond stones can be used with a lubricant (water or "polishing solution"), others should not. All ceramic stones can.

There are 2 schools of thought. One argues that lubricating diamond stones will yield superior results (smoother sharper edge), and will also lengthen the life of a diamond stone by preventing it from clogging up with debris. Some opined that the waste and filings will get into the base if lubricant is used. :confused:

As for lubricant, 50/50 mix of de-natured alcohol/de-ionised water is suggested. Alternative is soapy water which is convenient.

So, I suppose, it is best to use your own judgement whether lubricant should be used or not. :think:

[snowrider]

Snowrider,
Diamond stones and ceramic stones are used for two purposes:
1st, to take the burrs off the edges after a day of skiing (especially if you've skied on ice or rocks!) before you start filing.
2nd, to take the fine burrs of the edges after you have completed your filing. A diamond or ceramic stone will polish up the edges and harden them against future burring.

Some diamond stones can be used with a lubricant (water or "polishing solution"), others should not. All ceramic stones can.

There are 2 schools of thought. One argues that lubricating diamond stones will yield superior results (smoother sharper edge), and will also lengthen the life of a diamond stone by preventing it from clogging up with debris. Some opined that the waste and filings will get into the base if lubricant is used. :confused:

As for lubricant, 50/50 mix of de-natured alcohol/de-ionised water is suggested. Alternative is soapy water which is convenient.

So, I suppose, it is best to use your own judgement whether lubricant should be used or not. :think:

Thanks. This is very informative.

[Mike]

Same question always pop-up - should one de-tune the tip and tail?

Really, there is no should or should not. It really depends on how you ski and where you ski.
To decide whether the tips and tails ought to be de-tuned, one need to understand a bit more about base bevel.
Base bevel affects how far out to the side your skis get before they start to hook up in a turn.
With too little they start to hook up under you and they become touchy to steer into the turn.
The more you add the further out they get before they hook.
If you are strong and believe they will hook up eventually, you can get enough edge angle to carve, quickly release and adjust your trajectory.
One of the enjoyments about carving is that period of time when the skis are crossing your upper body in a turn and you are weightless. Then the skis hook, the feel of G force builds, and you are going somewhere else without losing any speed.
Higher base bevel angles require more faith in your equipment.

For those not really into carving and don't like that locked in on rails feeling. And prefer a more gradual "soft" entry into the turn, then there is no need for de-tune. Also, in soft snow, same applies.

[Mike]

Snowrider, for the type of snow you get on the East Coast, you might like to consider the Toko cold powder wax along the ski edge to minimize "base burn"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZ6lZRM2jRM&feature=player_embedded

[Mike]

Mike - This sounds like a good tool. However, after I did some quick research on the internet, I found that for the purpose of quick sharpening it's too expensive ($800) for me. Also, the following comments from epicski is very informative:
http://www.epicski.com/forum/thread/58704/anyone-have-experience-with-the-wintersteiger-discman#post_761081

Here is the video on the Wintersteiger Discman :icon_good:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utvNQBPiYNM&feature=related

[Mike]

Same question always pop-up - should one de-tune the tip and tail?

Really, there is no should or should not. It really depends on how you ski and where you ski.
To decide whether the tips and tails ought to be de-tuned, one need to understand a bit more about base bevel.
Base bevel affects how far out to the side your skis get before they start to hook up in a turn.
With too little they start to hook up under you and they become touchy to steer into the turn.
The more you add the further out they get before they hook.
If you are strong and believe they will hook up eventually, you can get enough edge angle to carve, quickly release and adjust your trajectory.
One of the enjoyments about carving is that period of time when the skis are crossing your upper body in a turn and you are weightless. Then the skis hook, the feel of G force builds, and you are going somewhere else without losing any speed.
Higher base bevel angles require more faith in your equipment.

For those not really into carving and don't like that locked in on rails feeling. And prefer a more gradual "soft" entry into the turn, then there is no need for de-tune. Also, in soft snow, same applies.

To understand a bit more about the difference between detuning and detuning/dulling.

Detuning is done to take the burrs of your edges after sharpening, this is usually a single 45 degree pass with a gumi stone with low pressure.
Detunning/Dulling is done with the same gumi stone but more progresively on the tips and tails.

In general, the right amount of detuned/dulled on tail and tip will make that you enter a turn with the flick of your boots. Too much detuned/dulled and your tip and tails have no grip making it hard to enter turn and it feels like you are all over the place. Not enough detuned/dulled and your tip will enter a turn unwanted, giving you the feel that they control you and they bite back.

Check how sharp is sharp, if you can shave with them they are sharp. A sharp edge will not feel sharp it will feel very smooth, your nail will tell you it is real sharp, if it feels sharp the edge usually has burrs.

How to detune/dull edges, take a gumi stone and use pressure on a 45 degree angle, overlap strokes lighter pressure towards where you want them sharp. Take that gumi stone with you the first day and check your edges at the end of the day for stone hits which create burr and drag, then a diamond file will take care of these..

[Mike]

Can skis be too sharp?
Answer is NO. It is either sharp or it is not. If your skis are not performing as they should, it means that your skis were sharpened/tuned to the wrong angle. If you feel the edges are "too sharp" it is usually due to a hanging burr.

Hanging burr is caused by working on your side edge! To remove it you should put your ski in a vise, side edge up, base facing away from you. Place a true hard stone flat against the base edge making sure to not to roll it over the side edge . With meduium pressure run the stone flat against the base edge, make a couple passes overlapping. You can hear when the edge is smooth. As a last step, very lightly with no pressure run a gummi stone at a 45 degree angle to the actual point of the edge.