Zermatt or Cervinia

[Will]

我12月底聖誕節期間想到歐洲滑雪。聽說Matterhorn狠好，但看見有兩邊，瑞士(Zermatt)或意大利(Cervinia)。

請問有沒有人知道哪邊比較好玩？我和老婆都是中級的。

[saikee]

Cervinia is significantly cheaper and possibly a bit bigger and better linked.

Zermatt wins on better view of Materhorn, trains as part of the chairlift system and definitely more up market in the town.

In term of skiing the link between the two sides is liable to be suspended in a high wind, usually with plenty of notice and start from the morning. Last time I spent 4 days and 50% the link was closed. I bought daily pass and the worker would only sell me the full pass if both sides were open.

I think Cervinia has more runs for the intermediates but in general Zermatt and Cervinia are not extreme if the visitors stay within the piste. You will be able to ski both sides regardless which side you choose to stay.

Christmas is a magic time to ski Zermatt/Cervinia. It is definitely a place to treat your better half. Swiss resorts are so clean and so well organised that you will find the wash room facilities better than those in many international airports. Zermatt is among the best.

In term of skiing there are many places better than Zermatt/Cervinia. What it got is the the superior ambience, first class facilities, friendly people and superb restaurants. People go there to enjoy the better things in life and to relax. Hardcore extreme skiers are in minority.

I like the Cervinia side because with the main Breuil Cervinia station you can take 3 gondolas and the first time clip on the skis you are almost in the Swiss side.

Never done it yet but from the highest skiing point in Europe (Swiss side Gobba di Rollin at 3899m) to the bottom of Valtournenche at 1524m the Italian side there is more than 2300m vertical drop. The Swiss highest cable car shuts frequently due to high wind same as the link to Cervinia.

For Christmas I think Valtourmenche should be skiable to the bottom. It wasn't when I last skied in mid March 2007.

[Will]

Thanks Saikee. You always have great insight into the European resorts.

Think we will head to Cervinia this time, as we have already been to Zermatt during summer and also been to the Swiss side of Portes du Soleil earlier this year. Think we will try out the Italian style of skiing. Think the food will be better and the atmosphere will be more vibrant than the Swiss.

We also plan to visit Dolomiti for a week on this trip too. You think 1 week in Cervinia and 1 week in Dolomiti is a good idea? We will probably need to rent a car to travel around, right? I see that Dolomiti has 12 villages, which one do you think is better?

[saikee]

I have skied 13 countries and over 120 resorts. Dolomites is definitely the best for the recreational skiers. Die-hard, hard core and extreme skiers will find Dolomites too tame. Although not compulsory it is marginally more expensive to get a Dolomites Super ski pass and enjoy the unlimited freedom of over 1200km piste in 12 skiing areas. The 12 areas are not easy to get to except the groups that form the Sella Ronda circuit at the middle.

3V has 620km piste and over 200 chairlifts fully linked. The 1200km piste of Dolomites are not fully linked but the largest fully linked section of Sella Ronda has 510km piste and 205 chairlifts. Therefore for a first timer the area must visited would be the Sella Ronda.

Although it sounds to have less piste length than 3V in France Sella Ronda wins on having a huge terrain, unbeatable scenery and value for money.

Sella Ronda is formed by 4 corners made up by Selva(Area #4), Alta Badia(Area #3), Arabba(Area #6) and Canazie(Area #5). Each is a standalone resort of the 12 areas of Dolomites. The mountain passes between the 4 corners are liable to be close during the heavy snow so if you come from Zermatt the best place to be is Selva which has a group of smaller resorts, all fully linked, made up by Gardena, Santa Cristina and Ortisei. You can book in any of them if you have a car.

The main attraction is the Sella Ronda circuit of about 38 km including the lifted distance. You should drive to Gardena to start the circuit as early as possible and try to reach the diametric opposite side, which is Aabba, to have lunch and still leave half a day to return back. The circuit is well sign-posted to go clockwise and anticlockwise by orange and green displays. It is made up essentially blue and red runs and none of the runs is black.

An average skier able to ski red runs on a fine weather day would have no problem to complete the circuit in good time. A good skier can go round the loop twice whereas only competition grade skiers can manage more than 2 loops in a day. I say this because my brother's two children did two loops in a day. They are teenagers self taught to ski but were once members of a local skiing club in Norway.

This is the world longest skiing circuit so do treat it with respect. The Italian resort owner has done a lot of work to make it easy but you still do need to ski a distance in excess of 25km approximately. The Sella Ronda goes around a high Dolomite rock formation in the centre. The scenery is unrivalled.

The Santa Cristina has its own loop with Ortisei involving crossing to a large family resort area called Alpe di Siusi. That loop is also a day's skiing in its own right but one section is made up by a fantastic bus run that has only one lane in deep snow. Believe me that is a ride of a life time too. This Santa Cristina/Ortisei/Alpe di Siusi involves a short walk right through the town centre of Ortisei which is very memorable. The bus run links to a underground funicula which is rather novel too. Alpe di Siusi is sold as a family resort so it will be very accommodating for intermediates. The black runs may be steep but not long at all. In Europe the Italian black runs are rated the easiest.

Opposite Selva is Arabba which is the gateway to three main attractions

(1) Cortina d'Ampezzo - This the most expensive Italian resort and home of many skiing competitions. Zermatt and St Moritz are the top Swiss resort. Cortina D'Ampezzo (Area #1) is the equivalent in Italy. It is a short drive from Arabba (Area #6).

(2) World War I skiing tour - This is the route the Italians were fighting the Austrians during the war and can be skied in one day. It is linked by 4 resorts of Arabba, Civetta (Area #12), Cortina D'Ampezzo (only the periphery of it) and Alta Badia. The loop requires two bus rides each is about 15km long. Part of the loop goes round the famous Hidden Valley where the skiing is the only way down. The World War I skiing tour is unidirectional. The end of Hidden Valley is very flat you can pay to take a bus to the nearest chairlift or towed by horses for 2 Euro (I think). The best outdoor BBQ is there and also drink with real fire is served in the only pub there.

(3) From Arabba one can ski Sella Ronda in either clockwise or anticlockwise direction.

You can see just from the above that there is a huge amount of skiing unrivalled in any other skiing region.

With a car accommodation can be booked slightly off the resort, say within 5 to 10km, and the price will be very attractive. This January we stayed in a 4 star hotel half board (4 courses dinner) for 100 Euro per couple per night near Arabba. In 2006 we stayed in Santa Cristina and were charged 58 Euro B&B en-suite room for a couple per night.

Part of Dolomites is South Tirol where people take pride in serving their food to the clients so you will find good food and affordable price not found in France and Switzerland here.

Dolomites is to be enjoyed so don't rush it. One week is good enough in any of the 4 corners of Sella Ronda.

My January trip this year was done in two weeks with the first week to Ski Amade of Austria and the second week in Dolomites. I reported here. (http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=54479&highlight=amade&start=40)

I am planning to go back to Arabba or Selva possibly in March.

[Will]

Saikee, thank you for your info. You are always so informative. Read your report too, sound like you and your wife had a great time!

Seeing that Dolomiti is so big, we are thinking of spending the 2 weeks in Dolomiti (staying in different villages) instead of splitting between Cervinia and Dolomiti.

Can you recommend any villages in the Dolomiti area for accommodation? We were originally thinking of Corvara or Arabba for 1 week and somewhere else for another. Are there any websites you used for booking? Do we need to rent a car?

[saikee]

Will,

I used either bergfex.com, which tell us the details of the skiing resorts nearby or just Google map itself.

Bergfex has a good supply of accommodations which I found useful as it provide a good range from 5-star hotels to farms with only cold running water etc to suit every pocket. The accommodations appear to be well regulated and so the standard is pretty good. You get exactly what you want. I have been use its information for a number of years. Generally I only after en suite room and may not stay for the full week. About 60 to 80 Euro per room B&B can lead to plenty of choices. That I think is a fair price because stay in a hotel around Europe is about the same price but you are now in a skiing resort! I generally like to be a few km away from the main centre as I don't like crowd.

In Google map you can say search Arabba and have a local street or areal map. If you then type "pension" (the common name in Europe for B&B) or hotels you can see all the accommodations possibilities around the area. These accommodations may or may not have a web site but should have email addresses. If I like one for its location then I search more to know about the accommodation.

Normally the expensive ones have own web sites for booking but for the cheaper ones you need to send an email to request accommodation. They are normally pretty quick so it is very easy to get booked. The replies from the owners can be in Italian or German but you can get Babelfish or other sites, do a copy and pate. to get the information translated. I like family hotels as they value our business and so you tend to get good services.

I stayed in Santa Cristina a B&B for skiing Selva and Dolomites.

For Cortina Ampezzo I stayed at a 4-star hotel Livilnallongo which is 5 miles from Arabba. This was the place we got 4-course dinner for 100 Euro per night for a couple. We enjoy the food there and the place is handy for Arraba, Hidden Valley, Cortina and Civetta. We are thinking going back there again. Livinallongo is a quiet place so does not have many restaurant so booking half board makes sense there. It is 19 miles from Cortina but the resort can be access in about 12 miles via a mountain pass. Staying in Cortina is a lot more expensive.

With a car we didn't find places like Zermatt, St Anton, Ischgl, St, Moritz, Aspen, and Vail expensive by staying at a suitable distance away and still able to enjoy everything they got.

In deciding where to stay try using Bergfex, click the resorts, check the number of chairlifts and it soon becomes obvious. This is particularly true for Dolomites with which I have skied 7 out of the 12 areas. Some areas are not that big but scattering around several provinces. I think Selva makes a good week while somewhere around Arabba (or Alta Badia) should be a strategic for covering the top prize Cortina Ampezzo.

What time are you planning to go there?

[Will]

Saikee,

Thanks again for the in depth info. My wife and I will do some research now and try work out our travel plan.

We are planning the trip from 18 Dec till 1 Jan. Will you be skiing in the same area during this period?

[saikee]

Will,

My plan is to ski Dolomites in end of Feb after spending may be the first week in Stubai/Solden/Obergurgl of Austria. These are three of the Austrian resorts I have not been.

My normal plan is to do no more than 650 miles in the first day so I would pick somewhere I have not been near and up to Innsbruck(630 miles from Holland). Then I shall have a rest day after skiing the first week by driving leisurely down to Dolomites from Austria and drop in to check out the skiing resorts on my way.

I am looking at the possibility of skiing this Christmas/New year too which I did regularly up to 2004 but the wife complained not able to see the kids if we were always away during Christmas when they should have been able to come home visiting us. This year the son is getting married in a week's time and the family will be meeting in London so they may have no holiday left for coming home for Christmas. End of January is cheaper and not so crowded and so in recent years we do January and/or March mainly. My two kids are off my hand and living far away from us.

If the kids are not coming home this Christmas then it is possible for us to ski this Christmas by driving to Switzerland, say near Sion (627 miles from Holland) and spend a couple of days in Verbier, then may be 4 days in Zermatt/Cervinia or Saas Fee as I haven't been to the latter yet. Then we can spend the second week in either Santa Cristina or Livinallongo as we find these two places most convenient to cover a lot of areas. Livinallongo is my current favourite as I like Cortina Ampezzo and could spend some time in Marmolada which we didn't go to the top last time.

I should be able to know whether we can go this Christmas after seeing the kids next week. Having got a new set of spare winter tyres last year for my 4x4 I will definitely do one or two European trips the coming season. It would be interesting to hook up with you guys as we mainly ski as a couple only usually on a two-week trip. Not many people are available to do a two-week skiing holiday. We prefer to drive and must spend at least 3 days in travelling so going for one week is not cost effective in our case.

[Mike]

Saikee, very detail analysis as usual. :icon_adore: :icon_good:

http://www.sella-ronda.info/eng/index.html

Have you been to Courayeur and any comment?

[saikee]

I have skied Courmayeur a few times as I used to own a static caravan in the only camping site in Chamonix. Courmayeur is just at the other end of the Mont Blanc tunnel and literally at the door step of Chamonix.

Courmayeur is small and the terrain is hilly. It has about 100km piste. Due to its size it is visited by Chamonix skiers as a day trip because some Chamonix ski passes cover a day visit to Courmayeur free. You do have to pay to cross the Mont Blanc tunnel twice though.

It is a nice Italian resort. To spend a week there are better choices like La Thulie/La Rosiere, Cervinia and other bigger resorts in the Aosta Valley.

I knew an Italian professor who told me that he preferred Courmayeur to Dolomites as it was less visited by the Italians and the properties were more affordable. He bought a property there eventually.

I would say any Italian resort is refreshing to skiers used to the French ones. Italian runs are also less extreme than the French.

[Will]

Saikee,

We have confirmed our schedule to Dolomiti.

We will fly into Milan on 18 Dec, drive to Kronplatz where we will spend a week in an apartment in Riscone. After that we will go to Val Gardena, staying in an apartment for another week in St Christina.

We are then flying out of Milan on the 2 Jan.

Any chance you will be around that area over that period?

[saikee]

Will,

Nice one mate!

My daughter will not come home for Christmas but she would be available if we go over to New York to see so it is not decided yet. Can't talk to the son as he is on his honeymoon which really takes one "month".

From Google Map the distance between Milan and Riscone is 246 miles so it is a long drive for you unless you are used to driving long distance. Riscone is right at major lift station of Kronplatz but its last run back to the station is black. I was rather taken back by the steep black in Picolino which is also the last run back to the car park. It was one of the steepest Italian black but I haven't done the Kronplatz black at Riscone.

Riscone is handy for enjoying whatever night life of Brunico which should be buzz with activities in Christmas.

On your way to Riscone you should, near the junction with the tolled motorway A22 with the country road SS49, pass the Area #10 Valle Isarco. It has several small skiing areas making up 85 km piste. Once you leave the tolled A22 you have 20 miles to Riscone and Valle Isarco is 16 miles from Riscone.

On the West side of Krontplatz you can find Area #7 Alta Pluteria which has 54 km piste. Is on the same SS49 which takes you 26 miles to reach the Austrian border. Area #7 is 20 miles from Riscone. I haven't sked Pusteria or Isarco yet but passed the former. They may be considered small relative to those around Sella Ronda.

Each area does its own piste map. I can spare a set of Kronplatz, Alta Badia, Cortina, Civetta, Selva, Arabba if you send me your address to my email watt.chai@gmail.com. You can also write to the Dolomites official web site, indicating that you have already booked to go to Kronplatz and Selva and request a complete set of piste maps of the 12 areas. They also do a English version of "The Dolomites - A mountain of Wonder" promotion booklet describing the 12 area. It is a nice one to have.

In your case you can even purchase the Dolomites Super ski pass via the Internet. It is only marginally more expensive than a daily pass of skiing one area. From memory possibly only about 3 to 4 Euro more. You can purchase two sets with a break when you change camp from Riscone to Selva.

Once booked I normally use Google Map (click get direction) to find out the distance of the accommodation to the nearest points of intertest. Therefore before arriving Riscone you should have a table about the distance from Riscone as the centre to Vallee Isarco, Plusteria, Pedraces (first lift station of ALta Badia if you travel from Riscone), Lagazui (Access point of Hidden Valley), S Cassiano (starting point for you if you decide to do the World War I skiing tour. It is unidirectional only and your last one should be the Hidden Valley) , Arabba, Civetta, Selva, Cortina and Milan. You should a similar table of distances using Selva as the starting point.

While in Riscone I would spend at least 2 days in Kronplatz, one day drive to Pedraces and ski the entire Alta Badia (La Villa, S Cassiano, Colfosco and Corava) which can last the whole day as it is the second largest of the 4 resort forming the Sella Ronda. I would do Sella Ronda if I were you when staying in Selva as while in Knronplatz I would do a day trip to Cortina D' Ampezzo which is equivalent to Aspen of USA, Zermatt of Switzerland and St Anton/Lech of Austria.

I think you and your wife should have no problem of trying the World War I skiing tour which you can tried the Lagazui to S Cassiano section (unidirectional) or/and Lagazui to Fedare (can ski both directions) which include the famous Cique Torri (just 5 pieces of rock columns sticking out in the middle of nowhere). The World War I skiing tour is quite memorable but takes a full day. If you decide to try it then you should start as early as possible to drive to S Cassiano, ski to Araaba, go up half way to Marmolada so that you can ski down to Malga Ciapela. Ask the desk about the bus to Civetta (as it is a short walk, say 5 minutes) from the station) ski Civetta from Alleghe to Pescul, take another bus to Fedare, ski from Fedare to Lagazui, do the Hidden Valley and ski the last bit from Centro Fondo to S Cassiano. The bottom of the Hidden Valley is very flat and involves a bit of walking. However there is a taxi service at the the car park of the only pub there. It works by several skiers grouping together to form a syndicate of 5 and call the taxi. Think it was something like 5 Euro per head. to the nearest chairlift for going back to S Cassiano. Another alternative is to ski a short distance to a horse-drawn drag. It is two ropes tied to a carriage. You could be one of the 50 holding one of the two ropes pulled along at the back of of a horse-drawn carriage. It is different and cost 2 Euro per head. The World War skiing tour is a loop going round parts of Alta Badia, Arabba, Civetta and Cortina involving two bus rides each 15 miles long. The one between Malga Ciapela and Civetta is free as it is just a regular bus. The one between Pescul (of Civetta) to Fedare (belonging to Cortina) is a special bus costing 5 Euro per head. It does take time to load the full bus. In this tour you will find fellow skiers in groups so ask around to make sure you are on the right track. The route is detailed only in Civetta's piste map but it is one of the attractions featured in any Dolomites superski promotion.

For Selva you can spend at least two days to do the Sella Ronda, one day clockwise and another day anticlockwise. The loop around Santa Cristina to the top of Seceda, down to Ortisie, going through Alps di Siusi is a day's job and should be enjoyed, Alps Di Siusi is sold as a family resort and so it is large, nice and flat for relax cruising. Caneizei is one worth a day trip to explore if you stay in Santa Cristina. I found Ortisei very nice especially in the night. This town is fully integrated with the skiing facilities and not busy at all while you can walk through the town (assisted by elevators) while skiing it through.

We had some of the best experience with Dolomites as the area is quite open and wide with huge terrain to enjoy. A resort like 3V, Paradiiski, Espace Killy, Verbier etc is large but invariably still a compavt area on its own. Dolomites is skiing in the a "region" travelling on a pair of skis or a snowboard. Thus on paper the 600 km piste of 3V is the largest but it spreads out in 4 valleys. The Sella Ronda 510 km piste is from 4 fully linked areas of Dolomites and physically a much bigger skiing domain.

Lastly most of the Italian motorways are tolled if you are not already aware. Normally you enter the system and given a ticket. At any of the exits you give back the ticket and they will tell you how much, normally a display is next to the cashier. You don't need to speak a word of Italy to get by. English is not spoken widely by the Italians and use sign language if you have to. In ski pass counters, restaurants and tourist areas English is widely used.

Road wise the section between Kronplatz and Alta Badia is frequently trafficed and has no steep section so there should be no problem with it. The section going up from S Cassiano to Lagazui is the easiest of the 4 mountain passes in Sella Ronda. The section between Lagazui to Cortina does involve a long but not challenging mountain passes. In term of difficulty the mountain passes between Sela with Canazei and Selva with Alta Badia are the most challenging and you should be prepared to back off in bad weather in a 2WD vehicle. Remember when you go from one place to another place to ski you have to allow for the condition when you drive back. I do see many 2WD cars going through these mountain passes but they are local and their cars had proper winter tyres. I would request and pay the extra if I have to for he hired car to have winter tyres otherwise your freedom in Dolomites may be restricted.

We haven't decided on the trip yet but Dolomites is a place we would not mind going back to. Sunshine will be in short supply in any Alpine resort in Christmas and New year time but weather generally is better in Dolomites from out experience relative to Austria, Switzerland and France.

We shall make a decision when the son returns from his honeymoon in early October. Our problem is that they may sway our choice to suit themselves if they decide to join in mostly just for a week, thus it may be a case of finding a resort with an airport I could pick them up and send them off easily.

[aries]

Hi Saikee,

I have also confirmed my one-week ski holiday from 29 Jan to 7 Feb 2011 (around the Chinese New Year holidays) in Selva Gardena of the Dolomites, a dream finally realised after initially planned two years ago.

[saikee]

Although it may not be important to some but the skiing loop in the Italian Sella Ronda is the biggest in the world by miles. A total distance of 40km must be covered in a day and 26km are on the slope with the reminder being the distance in the chairlifts.

The loop is well sign posted with Orange for the clockwise and Green for anticlockwise.

Selva locates at one of the 4 corners and strategic for embarking this loop.

I must admit having done it marks a milestone in my skiing experience.

The loop is not difficult and comprises only Red and Blue runs. Most average skiers will have no problem to ski it in a day with a small bit of time to spare. A good skier can do the loop twice in a day but it could take a competition standard skier to go round it more than twice.

The trick is aim at covering the 50% of the loop before having lunch and still left with half the skiing time to complete the rest of the journey. If one runs out of time one should skip the lunch. Also passing the middle distance (for Selva Gardena it would be Araaba) is the point of no return whereas one can retreats if it doesn't look like one has time before reaching the mid point.

Although Italy is not crowded by the French standard and does not suffer from the French mid term school breaks there could be queues at a few bottle necks of the Sella Ronda route so do be prepared if you go there in Feb.

Selva Garden, with 175km piste on its own, is the biggest resorts in the Dolomites which has 12 areas. The Sella Ronda links Selva, Alta Badia, Araaba and Canazei into a fully linked domain of 510km piste with 205 chairlifts. Therefore skiing in Dolomites is touring the several Italian regions on a pair of skis or a snowboard.

Selva Gardena is about the highest point in the valley where the Sella Ronda passes. Going downhill within the same valley is Santa Cristina, Ortisei and Alps Di Siusi which have their own skiing areas. These three areas also have a circuit of its own and takes a day to get through. This loop does require a bus ride leading to the funicula of Santa Cristina.

After the Sella Ronda another famous skiing loop is the Austrian "White Ring" in St Anton. It only has 22km distance and part of it is "ski route" which is not groomed or off piste. It is again mild enough and suitable for the average skiers to attempt.

Distance wise I could only remember the Italian Saalbach Hiterglemm valley has a sizeable loop. In this valley one can ski on side to the extreme end and return by the opposite side to make up a loop of about 30 to 32km. In the clockwise direction it does have a black run which could be avoided in the antclockwise direction.

Italian Food and accommodation are among the cheapest in the Alps. The Dolomites Superski is also the best value for money. If you find the scenary jaw dropping then you have reached the Dolomites.

No serious skier can be disappointed by the Dolomites. Skiing to a certain extent is about freedom. You will find the best of it in the Dolomites!

It does look like I might see some of you there the coming season.

[saikee]

Just an update.

I was thinking of going to Dolomites either during Christmas or end of Jan/beginning of Feb it won't happen this year.

The daughter has been to New York 10 years so I have promised to visit her this Christmas. Therefore I have booked to there one week earlier to sample Killington, Stowe and Smugglers' Notch resorts in Vermont.

I was planning my jan/Feb trip to see if I could catch up with aries. However a family from HK is coming over to see his son in Oxford and then another son in Tilburg in Holland. They requested me to meet them up in Paris on 6 Feb. Once this is fixed Dolomites becomes a destination too far for me.

After investigating I finally decided to go to Milky Way after spending the first week in Stubai/Solden/Obergural which has always been my plan. From Briancon I could ski Serre Chevalier and the Milky Way before stopping at Les Deux Alpes and ski Alpe D'Heuz. Therefore I finish my skiing and drive the 400miles to Paris to meet up with friends.

[Mike]

The daughter has been to New York 10 years so I have promised to visit her this Christmas. Therefore I have booked to there one week earlier to sample Killington, Stowe and Smugglers' Notch resorts in Vermont.

I have never skied the East Coast, I was told the slopes there are usually fairly icy. Please let us know when you return.

For a change I am heading to the West Coast for skiing this Christmas. :dance: