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舊 2013-02-28, 18:48   #16
skier
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作者: B2L2 查看文章
Not enough bending of the 3 joints. When you stand pretty tall, doing leg rotation is not going to create much edging. It creates leg pivoting, but not much edging.

If you have enough bending particular in the knees (look at the video again), while leg rotates, it creates the edging we want.

What makes this edging interesting. :) We are creating edge angle without leaning much into the turn and the skies aren't far away from your body.

But quoting Bob Barnes:

"......The entire maneuver takes place in "neutral," on slipping skis with edges released. There should be no edge set, and no attempt to slow the slip at any point in the maneuver."

Also doing the pivot-slip in steeper terrain is much more difficult because, without trying to edge, one is already on higher edge angle.
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舊 2013-03-01, 02:57   #17
B2L2
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skier, my understand of Bob's line is that there should be no "extra" effort to set the edge (like lean to the hill) in order to slow down the slip. The slip needs to be continuous for this exercise which makes it hard to do.

The way I see this drill when watching the video:
* when ski is pointing across the slope, ski is set on edge. And edges are set not because of the usual beginner method like lean to the hill.
* if one is leaning to the hill, he wouldn't able to release the edge effectively which will fail this exercise.

What do you think, skier?
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舊 2013-03-01, 06:14   #18
Mike
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Brian, this is what Bob Barnes said:
"Pivot Slips highlight the "release and guide the tips downhill, into the turn" initiation of modern, offensive turns. Perhaps the most common error when attempting them is the tendency to set the edge of the downhill ski, slowing or even stopping the slip, and then "pushing off" from the platform of that ski--pushing and twisting the uphill ski tail uphill, rather than guiding the downhill tip down the hill."

I concur with your understanding but not sure on the way you see the drill, let me think about it.
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舊 2013-03-01, 09:02   #19
skier
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skier, my understand of Bob's line is that there should be no "extra" effort to set the edge (like lean to the hill) in order to slow down the slip. The slip needs to be continuous for this exercise which makes it hard to do.

The way I see this drill when watching the video:
* when ski is pointing across the slope, ski is set on edge. And edges are set not because of the usual beginner method like lean to the hill.
* if one is leaning to the hill, he wouldn't able to release the edge effectively which will fail this exercise.

What do you think, skier?

"when ski is pointing across the slope, ski is set on edge."

I do not think he said that or meant that.

It is not "set".

The natural gradient of the slope will cause edge angle to the slope. NO extra effort to set the edge.
Need subtle release during each initiation of new slip.
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舊 2013-03-01, 10:29   #20
B2L2
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Well, I guess I have everyone confused. Actually too many things are being linked together by me without clear description. Sorry.

Now I think about it, this drill isn't an edging exercise of course. On the opposite, it is an edge release exercise. This promotes fine edge control in order to maintain the constant slipping. It is also a good leg rotation exercise, since in order to maintain the upper body to face fall line, the only way to complete this exercise is to do leg rotation properly.

Now outside of this drill, the proper leg rotation in the hip is the mastery explanation of the knee angulation people talked about. Knee can't be angulated sideway. But when your knee is bend together with leg rotation in the hip socket, you could then achieve the so-called "knee angulation". This uses the stronger muscle from the thigh to do the steering and also benefit your edging.

That's at least how I think this drill is benefit. Please correct.
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舊 2013-03-01, 23:23   #21
eLeung
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For me, the toughness come in many areas:

1) leg rotation (femurs) in the hip sockets, this is an action that CSIA promotes. When doing this exercise, I then realize how little I could do that. Keeping knees bend is important in order to do this right.
(Bob's probably right that bending too much could also limit the motion, but I will have to experiment that too)
2) Very balanced stance in order to release the edge. Sometime, leaning forward down the hill is almost required.

For benefits from this exercise, for me there are many as well:

1) able to experience a cool way to create edge biomechanically. Rotating your leg in the hop sockets are using bigger leg muscles, however, we don't use this muscles a lot even as intermediate skiers, practice, practice, practice.
2) practice edge release, important step to do early edge release before fall line.
3) stable upper body, important step for short turns.
Thanks, Brain, for your kind explanation.

I totally agree that this drill develops release of edges, fore/aft balance, upper body stability, and leg steering. It is also a good test of a skier's ability to begin a turn by simply releasing the edges and turning the feet in the new direction.

I am sure you practiced this drill quite carefully and patiently. Otherwise, you cannot tell – "2) Very balanced stance in order to release the edge. Sometime, leaning forward down the hill is almost required."

Thanks again for putting money into my pocket :-)
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