香港滑雪論壇  
返回   香港滑雪論壇 > 滑雪討論區 > 滑雪教室 > SKI 技巧教學

通知
回覆
 
主題工具 顯示模式 Google 翻譯
舊 2010-03-17, 02:48   #46
Mckay
進階會員
 
註冊日期: 2008-05-26
文章: 282
Mckay 是普普通通的會員
作者: HKS 查看文章
One thing you don't understand. There are people out there who think they don't need the flexion or extension when skiing groom, like they don't need poles or their hands don't need to be in the front, cos they can ski without falling without doing those. Some think flexion or extension is not stylish. They all have their own reasons. When you tell them what they should do, their reply is they enjoy it their way and they don't need to be professional. Well, that's true. It's their ski holiday.

So the only thing we can say is "Enjoy your skiing!"
If a person's skiing technique is better, one can ski with much less effort. Skiing will be way more enjoyable.
Mckay 目前離線   回覆時引用此篇文章
舊 2010-03-17, 07:48   #47
Mike
超級版主
 
Mike 的頭像
 
註冊日期: 2008-05-19
住址: HK
文章: 4,345
Mike 正向着好的方向發展
作者: Mckay 查看文章
.... You just need to ski with me once and I can show you on Whistler, I can't do it in the bumps in Japan.
Why can't you do it in the bumps in Japan? What is the difference between the bumps in Whistler and in Japan?
Mike 目前離線   回覆時引用此篇文章
舊 2010-03-17, 08:40   #48
carver_hk-ski
進階會員
 
註冊日期: 2008-05-21
文章: 405
carver_hk-ski 是普普通通的會員
I never been whistler but I been europe. The difference between the two moguls is that in europe its like a mini-hill while in Japan its like a big holes. How different in skiing? I dont know I only made a few days attempt. Any mogul expert want to tell? :)

i love line graphics
carver_hk-ski 目前離線   回覆時引用此篇文章
舊 2010-03-17, 09:21   #49
Mckay
進階會員
 
註冊日期: 2008-05-26
文章: 282
Mckay 是普普通通的會員
作者: Mike 查看文章
Why can't you do it in the bumps in Japan? What is the difference between the bumps in Whistler and in Japan?

As carverhk said, a hill and a hole. A hill looks scary but you don't need to ski to the top and down and there is also space between the hill and also you can go up the hill a bit to slow you down. A hole, there is no where to get out smoothly unless you keep follow the line which is hard to control the speed, either you stop or you crash.

此篇文章於 2010-03-17 11:37 被 Mckay 編輯。.
Mckay 目前離線   回覆時引用此篇文章
舊 2010-03-17, 20:47   #50
freeskier
進階會員
 
註冊日期: 2008-07-15
文章: 228
freeskier 是普普通通的會員
In Europe or in N. America, skiers are more all around. Meaning that they ski not only groom runs but also ungrooms. These skiers can be intermediate or advance or expert. So the way they ski bumps are different. For exemple intermediate will travers the moguls until they have to turn. Advance skier will travers one or two bumps then turn. Expert skier will go down the zipper line( of course, it depends on steepness and snow condition). Because of this, the bumps will be irregular and in different size and shaped like a small hill.

In Japan, carvers only carve on groom runs, mogul skier only ski mogul, powder skiers only goes to the trees or out bound. Freestyle skier in Park and pipe. They are expert in their specialities, but don't care about other skills. So when it comes to mogul, they only like doing short turns like the compeition style mogul skiers, hit and absorb then turn, all the way down. As they only ski down on the same line, the trough(hole) become deeper and deeper.

But if you think this kind of moguls only exist in Japan, then you are wrong. I've seen them in Whistler too. During the summer, when there is the summer skiing camp on the gracier. Most of them are competition style mogul camps and their moguls are like this. I knew it, because I went up once, survived a few turns and bounced out. Aiko Uemura trains every summer on that too.

This winter, I had two night session with Kawasaki (one night with ski, the other night with telemark). He doesn't like the moguls here too, although he can ski down the zipper line in super fast speed with both skis. He admits it hurts his knee when skiing like this though. He recommended me not to ski these kind of moguls. But of course, I won't listen.

Things are changing though. I've heard that rounder turns are in trends again and there are moguls which is perfect for round shape turns in Naeba. Thanks to Maruyama's DVD "Bank magic" . It will never be like the moguls in Whistler. It is still troughs, not bumps, but at least this time the troughs will be rounder.
freeskier 目前離線   回覆時引用此篇文章
舊 2010-03-17, 21:00   #51
Mike
超級版主
 
Mike 的頭像
 
註冊日期: 2008-05-19
住址: HK
文章: 4,345
Mike 正向着好的方向發展
Peter - Thank you for the very detailed clarification. :)
Mike 目前離線   回覆時引用此篇文章
舊 2010-03-18, 02:02   #52
carver_hk-ski
進階會員
 
註冊日期: 2008-05-21
文章: 405
carver_hk-ski 是普普通通的會員
just curious how deep is the holes of the bumps in naeba compared with that of the bumps just below the gondula of hirafu. I m trying to access how difficult it is when my star Kawasaki say its bad for the knee. :)

i love line graphics
carver_hk-ski 目前離線   回覆時引用此篇文章
舊 2010-03-18, 05:41   #53
freeskier
進階會員
 
註冊日期: 2008-07-15
文章: 228
freeskier 是普普通通的會員
作者: carver_hk-ski 查看文章
just curious how deep is the holes of the bumps in naeba compared with that of the bumps just below the gondula of hirafu. I m trying to access how difficult it is when my star Kawasaki say its bad for the knee. :)
The depth of the trough depends on the number of skiers and the amount of snowfall. More Japanese style mogul skiers means deeper trough. While more snowfall means shallower trough. So comparison is meaningless because it change all the time. In fact, it is not only the depth of the hole that hurt the knee, it is the shape of the trough which is really bad. As every Japanese just slide then hit the bump and pivot the ski fast and hit the next bump again. The trough is so narrow that there is not enough space to make rounder turns to control the speed and even out the pressure. Kawasaki's knee hurt because he ski too fast down and cannot absorb all the impact. If he ski slower, I think he can absorb 100%. But as he is Kawasaki, he cannot allow himself to ski slower esp in front of the others. I think he can absorb only 80% of the impact. The rest goes to his knees. Kawasaki believes one has to ski a bit beyond one's limit. Thus, improvement can happen. This make him a great skier no doubt, but there is also the problem of bigger risk. Kawasaki had more injury than us take-it-easy style skiers. Well, there is no right or wrong. It is just a personal choice, isn't it?
freeskier 目前離線   回覆時引用此篇文章
舊 2010-03-18, 09:41   #54
skier
進階會員
 
skier 的頭像
 
註冊日期: 2008-05-19
住址: Hong Kong
文章: 759
skier 正向着好的方向發展
作者: Mckay 查看文章

Herald Harb's skiing style is not much different from a CSIA level 4. Even his skiing suit looks like the CSIA former national ski suit.

Came across the following CSIA numbers:
上傳的圖像
檔案類型: jpg CSIA.JPG (79.8 KB, 49 次查看)
skier 目前離線   回覆時引用此篇文章
舊 2010-03-18, 10:32   #55
Mckay
進階會員
 
註冊日期: 2008-05-26
文章: 282
Mckay 是普普通通的會員
Freeskier,

Our friends Akiko and Hisae both got the CSIA Level 4 teaching parts.
Mckay 目前離線   回覆時引用此篇文章
舊 2010-03-18, 10:36   #56
carver_hk-ski
進階會員
 
註冊日期: 2008-05-21
文章: 405
carver_hk-ski 是普普通通的會員
freeskier - please say hello to kawasaki for me. I have no doubt he can do those bumps. And it is very understable that he have to push his skiing as a super professional.

as you explained why Japanese bumps are so much more difficult that reminded me how I attempted to those big holes slowly with pmts method. I just skied down the holes, get back up with more counter, turn and brake hard at highC. The braking at high C also act as a turning mechanism and brings the CM forward at the same time. I guess its very different from other method.

i love line graphics
carver_hk-ski 目前離線   回覆時引用此篇文章
舊 2010-03-18, 11:33   #57
eLeung
Learn from you all
 
eLeung 的頭像
 
註冊日期: 2008-05-19
住址: Hong Kong
文章: 437
eLeung 是普普通通的會員
作者: carver_hk-ski 查看文章
as you explained why Japanese bumps are so much more difficult that reminded me how I attempted to those big holes slowly with pmts method. I just skied down the holes, get back up with more counter, turn and brake hard at highC. The braking at high C also act as a turning mechanism and brings the CM forward at the same time. I guess its very different from other method.
Nice description :-) Could you upload your video to visualize the beautiful movement in that situation?
eLeung 目前離線   回覆時引用此篇文章
舊 2010-03-18, 11:49   #58
carver_hk-ski
進階會員
 
註冊日期: 2008-05-21
文章: 405
carver_hk-ski 是普普通通的會員
作者: eLeung 查看文章
Nice description :-) Could you upload your video to visualize the beautiful movement in that situation?
Firstly I don't think the movement is beautiful when its performed by myself, remember I m only an intermediate skier like many other non-professional. I merely use everything I learn from pmts to struggle down the big holes and it turned out to be easier then I though. Secondly, sorry, no video prove. It's kind of believe it or not. But you can check my friends's video. He was also using pmts movements and he was managing the big holes below the gondula in hirafu of niseko. Those attempted it before would have a better idea of how deep those holes usually are. :)

i love line graphics

此篇文章於 2010-03-18 12:09 被 carver_hk-ski 編輯。.
carver_hk-ski 目前離線   回覆時引用此篇文章
舊 2010-03-18, 12:14   #59
eLeung
Learn from you all
 
eLeung 的頭像
 
註冊日期: 2008-05-19
住址: Hong Kong
文章: 437
eLeung 是普普通通的會員
作者: carver_hk-ski 查看文章
Firstly I don't think the movement is beautiful when its performed by myself, remember I m only an intermediate skier like many other non-professional. I merely use everything I learn from pmts to struggle down the big holes and it turned out to be easier then I though. Secondly, sorry, no video prove. It's kind of believe it or not. But you can check my friends's video. He was also using pmts movements and he was managing the big holes below the gondula in hirafu of niseko. Those attempted it before would have a better idea of how deep those holes usually are. :)
You are too humble and I believe without any reservation :-) It is just my curious because of your nice description. As a non-PMTS skier, I do not understand PMTS and have never watched a video (performed by Mr. Harald Harb) to ski in the deep and narrow trough. Of course, I have no doubt his skiing technique. Anyway, enjoy your skiing!
eLeung 目前離線   回覆時引用此篇文章
舊 2010-03-18, 12:27   #60
carver_hk-ski
進階會員
 
註冊日期: 2008-05-21
文章: 405
carver_hk-ski 是普普通通的會員
it is true that I also never seen Harald skiing big holes. Max of PMTS claimed somewhere that those moguls in Harald's book2 are monster mogul. I have reservation of it too. I ll just compare those big holes with what I usually seen in Europe. Its way more difficult. Maybe you can propose Harald to give it a try. I m sure like freeskier said you can find those big holes if you just follow where the WC mogul skiers going. :)

btw - to check where the highC braking happen, it would be easy to check out my friends video. The snowspray happens suddently right after neutral.

i love line graphics
carver_hk-ski 目前離線   回覆時引用此篇文章
回覆

書籤

主題工具
顯示模式

發文規則
不可以發表新主題
不可以發表回覆
不可以上傳附件
不可以編輯自己的文章

啟用 BB 代碼
論壇啟用 表情符號
論壇啟用 [IMG] 代碼
論壇禁用 HTML 代碼
論壇跳轉

相似的主題
主題 主題作者 版面 回覆 最後發表
Heli skiing in Canada Mike 美加地區滑雪場 12 2014-03-27 22:52
Whistler - Spring Skiing Mike 美加地區滑雪場 20 2011-10-17 21:19
Repost of "Slope8 滑雪技術討論 6 (mogul skiing)" Mike SKI 技巧教學 23 2009-10-18 01:22
Skiing demonstration eLeung SKI 技巧教學 0 2008-09-26 10:49
Skiing in NZ Elvin 澳紐地區滑雪場 9 2008-07-04 11:25


所有時間均為香港時間。現在的時間是 05:05

Hong Kong Snowboard & Ski Association
Copyright © 2003 - 2017